October 21, 2019, 07:31:08 PM

Author Topic: Dcl  (Read 10215 times)

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January 19, 2019, 02:30:03 AM
Reply #15
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blueToffee

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Which is the real reason why Premier League teams are terrible at developing players. It's not because the country's young players aren't good enough or because we don't have B teams playing in the lower leagues. It's because PL clubs are too scared to develop them on their own.

I get the argument for relegation battlers because relegation is costly. And title contenders are going to do whatever they please spending-wise. But say you're a comfortable mid-table club, not anywhere close to the top sides, and you have a few young players that show a lot of promise but still have rough edges. What do you have to lose by playing them? If even one of those players develops some consistency with regular game time, the money you might lose from a lower league position will be more than offset by the money you save not having to buy an expensive player in the next transfer window.

My hope for us every year is that the board and manager will get on the same page and risk a few points here and there to develop the talent we have and every year it's the same shit, trotting out at least one or two average guys who are never going to be part of a successful Everton team when there are players with genuine promise hanging around, getting the odd game here or there but mostly sitting on their asses.

To Silva's credit, he's worked out that Calvert-Lewin is better than Tosun (I don't care who the better finisher is, no defender in this league is remotely troubled marking Tosun) and he might finally be coming around on Lookman. But we've wasted too many minutes on Tosun and a declining Walcott and for what? So we can spend a lot more money on forwards this summer and still not know how good the guys we already have are?

Silva would win me over big time if he committed to giving regular minutes to the "good enough" kids for the rest of the season.

DCL made 32 appearances last season, he's been given some decent chances in his time here.


January 19, 2019, 02:33:35 AM
Reply #16
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kramer0


DCL made 32 appearances last season, he's been given some decent chances in his time here.

What does regular mean to you?

January 19, 2019, 02:34:38 AM
Reply #17
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blueToffee

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What does regular mean to you?

You don't think he got regular games last season?

He made the most appearances of any Everton outfield player in 2017/18 with 44 (PL and other comps) according to the OS. So if he wasn't playing regularly, I don't know what the others were doing.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2019, 02:42:29 AM by blueToffee »


January 19, 2019, 02:44:27 AM
Reply #18
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kramer0


You don't think he got regular games last season?

He made the most appearances of any Everton outfield player in 2017/18 with 44 according to the OS. So if he wasn't playing regularly, I don't know what the others were doing.

Does his role not factor in at all?

14 starts at CF, 4 starts on the wing, 14 sub appearances (and who knows how many of these had him out wide).

Of course a young player isn't going to perform when he's getting jerked around all the time. That's a big part of my point.

January 19, 2019, 03:06:23 AM
Reply #19
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blueToffee

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Does his role not factor in at all?

14 starts at CF, 4 starts on the wing, 14 sub appearances (and who knows how many of these had him out wide).

Of course a young player isn't going to perform when he's getting jerked around all the time. That's a big part of my point.

Yeah, it does when you're talking about his goal return. It might not be ideal, but plenty of players get shunted in positions that aren't always their favourites (see Sigurdsson too a lot of last year, Rooney at Man Utd went all over the place, etc etc).

I'd still say though he has had in that time plenty of chances to be involved, to get into scoring positions, to know what it's like to play games at this level of his age, plus he did get a good number of games centrally last year too. I'd say 14 as CF gives him very decent exposure of it.

You also have to be somewhat flexible though at that age getting into a PL team.

However, yes I think that equals regular game time for someone of his level of development.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2019, 03:07:31 AM by blueToffee »

January 19, 2019, 03:17:07 AM
Reply #20
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brap2

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Still think itís mad how some donít rate him at all.

Itís absolutely blindingly obvious, the potential that he has.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.


January 19, 2019, 03:21:21 AM
Reply #21
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Bob Sacamano

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And thinking 14 games as a lone frontman in the premier league is enough to form such a strong opinion of a 21 year old lolol lolol

January 19, 2019, 03:24:01 AM
Reply #22
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kramer0


Still think itís mad how some donít rate him at all.

Itís absolutely blindingly obvious, the potential that he has.

I mean, I get why some have doubts about his ability.

The real point I'm trying to make is that, even in the face of uncertainty about how good a young player actually is, we can create value for ourselves by giving them lots of minutes, which is the main factor that drives development.

Especially when we're safely mid-table and the alternatives in their position aren't that good.

January 19, 2019, 03:40:14 AM
Reply #23
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Waltzer


Still think it's mad how some don't rate him at all.

It's absolutely blindingly obvious, the potential that he has.
I dont rate him with regards to where we want to go, I think he is and always will be bottom of the premiership /championship level at best. That's not saying he's a bad player as loads would give their right arm to be that good, but he never will be top quality, he just won't.

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January 19, 2019, 04:12:12 AM
Reply #24
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Jamokachi


Still think itís mad how some donít rate him at all.

Itís absolutely blindingly obvious, the potential that he has.

I make no apologies in harbouring the view that if you don't rate the potential of DCL you're absolutely clueless and should give up on watching football, as it's just not for you. You're likely a terrible person, too.

January 19, 2019, 04:39:25 AM
Reply #25
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Ell Capitan

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His goal took a deflection the other week btw.

Not too sure it was on target.

The one against Bournemouth?

Shame. At the time thought that was easily the classiest finish I've ever seen from him.


January 19, 2019, 04:57:58 AM
Reply #26
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brap2

NSNO Subscriber
I make no apologies in harbouring the view that if you don't rate the potential of DCL you're absolutely clueless and should give up on watching football, as it's just not for you. You're likely a terrible person, too.

I feel the same way about people who want us to sign Vardy.
I knew that someday I was going to die, and I knew that before I died, two things would happen to me. That number one; I would regret my entire life, and number two; that I would want to live my life over again.

January 19, 2019, 05:11:17 AM
Reply #27
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Paddockoldie


It's that consistency thing though as I think he's proven many more times he's not good enough to be on the pitch for us.

Hope I'm wrong, as I am with any Everton player im critical of, but A BT award won't change my opinion of him yet

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The way I sometimes look at our young players who are only 20 or 21, I don't appreciate how hard it must be to lead the attack for a club of our history and stature, often against international level defenders. I then look at my 17 years old son who still looks like my little boy and I see there's 3-4 years difference. We're expecting a lot. I think in time he'll fill out, know what he's about and show his ability week in week out. His finish last week was subline.

January 19, 2019, 05:21:27 AM
Reply #28
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Paddockoldie


Which is the real reason why Premier League teams are terrible at developing players. It's not because the country's young players aren't good enough or because we don't have B teams playing in the lower leagues. It's because PL clubs are too scared to develop them on their own.

I get the argument for relegation battlers because relegation is costly. And title contenders are going to do whatever they please spending-wise. But say you're a comfortable mid-table club, not anywhere close to the top sides, and you have a few young players that show a lot of promise but still have rough edges. What do you have to lose by playing them? If even one of those players develops some consistency with regular game time, the money you might lose from a lower league position will be more than offset by the money you save not having to buy an expensive player in the next transfer window.

My hope for us every year is that the board and manager will get on the same page and risk a few points here and there to develop the talent we have and every year it's the same shit, trotting out at least one or two average guys who are never going to be part of a successful Everton team when there are players with genuine promise hanging around, getting the odd game here or there but mostly sitting on their asses.

To Silva's credit, he's worked out that Calvert-Lewin is better than Tosun (I don't care who the better finisher is, no defender in this league is remotely troubled marking Tosun) and he might finally be coming around on Lookman. But we've wasted too many minutes on Tosun and a declining Walcott and for what? So we can spend a lot more money on forwards this summer and still not know how good the guys we already have are?

Silva would win me over big time if he committed to giving regular minutes to the "good enough" kids for the rest of the season.

Just noticed we have seven of the under 21 WC Winning squad in our team... Not bad that.

January 19, 2019, 01:33:33 PM
Reply #29
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Waltzer


The way I sometimes look at our young players who are only 20 or 21, I don't appreciate how hard it must be to lead the attack for a club of our history and stature, often against international level defenders. I then look at my 17 years old son who still looks like my little boy and I see there's 3-4 years difference. We're expecting a lot. I think in time he'll fill out, know what he's about and show his ability week in week out. His finish last week was subline.
I get that and it must be difficult, but the flip side is they have no real worries or cares, they just usually go out and enjoy it, this is echoed by ex professionals too. It's sometimes easier being young as the expectations aren't there and this is my concern with DCL, it's the instinctive stuff that really isn't there. The ball from Bernard across the face of goal and he's nowhere to be scene, the 1 on 1vs liverpool that he balloons over the goals, the endless headers that come off his shoulder etc. He's not a bad player, but he just doesn't have the natural instinct or finishing of a top quality player and I don't think you can teach that. I honestly struggle to see what people see in him to make them think he could be the real deal, he's done nothing.

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