Financial Fairplay Investigation - 2025 Nobody in Breach

[AjaxAndy]

So, until the Premier League decided to change the rules, mid-process, the interest payments on the stadium would have been exempt? Well surely that is a major factor in defending our position in this, no? If the goalposts are moved, mid-process, then surely it is nigh on impossible for us not to be in breach. Therefore, it shouldn't be too difficult to demonstrate that the Premier League have acted in bad faith and have treated us unfairly, especially when you consider that other clubs have been allowed to invest in stadium developments, which were presumably exempt from the calculations.

No idea how true it is, but I read on the Forest forum that one of the loans we've claimed was for the stadium actually had 'must not be used for stadium costs'.

I haven't heard that anywhere else so probably bollocks, but no doubt we'll have tried to pass some stuff off as stadium costs that weren't. If that's the case it's more probably we've broken rules that were always in place, but tried to make it look like we hadn't.

[Gorillabear9]

No idea how true it is, but I read on the Forest forum that one of the loans we've claimed was for the stadium actually had 'must not be used for stadium costs'.

I haven't heard that anywhere else so probably bollocks, but no doubt we'll have tried to pass some stuff off as stadium costs that weren't. If that's the case it's more probably we've broken rules that were always in place, but tried to make it look like we hadn't.

I remember seeing that when the initial charges came out and I think the argument was that moshiri put money into the stadium and that if we didn’t have the stadium he would’ve put that money into the team and we wouldn’t have needed to take out the loan for general operating purposes and thus the interest on that loan should be counted towards the stadium. Makes sense if you think about it that way but a major fuckup on our part given that the loan specifically states it can’t be towards the stadium. Who knows though, time will tell.

[4evablu]

There's gonna be loadsa these type of rumours and suppositions flying around over the coming months. I dont believe most of them personally as the only people in the know are the actually people in the know ie those who "were there"

[Trowel]

[4evablu]

Have read this document right through. IMO the overall ethos of the statement is very good i found it a little too literary and "jumped from one timeframe to another and back too often and one topic back to another. I also think it's not good to highlight some of the negatives that are in there.
I would have liked to see see some "demands" in there at the end that are clear and succinct.
ie: Why is/was there no bringing to task of the PL who were acting as and working with EFC over a 2 year period in order to identify and assist in no breaches being achieved?
And others.
Having said that at least something is being put forward on behalf of the fans it's whether they accept and acknowledge it.
Lets hope they do...but something tells us otherwise.

[Gary1878]

What I am becoming more concerned about is if the club/board have misled the fans in any way.

If it has been found that we have been deducted more points because we tried to mislead and hide information from the Premier League, then I do think we deserve what we get.

Surely if it was as simple as mislabeling the rationale for a loan and you can source exactly where funds went, then I can’t believe the PL would have cause for such a large deduction.

[brap2]

What I am becoming more concerned about is if the club/board have misled the fans in any way.

If it has been found that we have been deducted more points because we tried to mislead and hide information from the Premier League, then I do think we deserve what we get.

Surely if it was as simple as mislabeling the rationale for a loan and you can source exactly where funds went, then I can’t believe the PL would have cause for such a large deduction.

Oh we've definitely tried to mislead and we got away with lots of it. We had the highest COVID losses in the game, and the prem were very lenient with how much we put down for that.

We seem now stuck on this point of : if we weren't building a stadium, we wouldn't have had to take loans, and we wouldn't be getting killed by this interest. Therefore, the loans and their interest should be mitigated for. There's some reasonable argument for this (IAS23), but as far as I can tell, the premier league have ready told us first time around "no".

Edit: but the financial chicanery is all part and parcel I suppose and not exactly 'misleading the fans', nor is that why we got hit by such a big punishment as far as I can tell.

We got done for so many points as far as I can tell because the prem gave the IC a calculation of £m > PS threshold to points working it out at 12, and the IC rejected that, perhaps feeling they were being lenient, and lowered it to 10.

[Bluedylan1]

I think the club and the Premier League are both not acting in good faith. Both can be true and don't invalidate the other.

[4evablu]

The biggest issue seems to be the fact that Moshiri was allowed any where near the bloody hearing in the first instance. Allowed to offer evidence in the second instance. Not leaving it to the "experts" in the third instance.
Disaster of a man.

[Escalator]

Have read this document right through. IMO the overall ethos of the statement is very good i found it a little too literary and "jumped from one timeframe to another and back too often and one topic back to another. I also think it's not good to highlight some of the negatives that are in there.
I would have liked to see see some "demands" in there at the end that are clear and succinct.
ie: Why is/was there no bringing to task of the PL who were acting as and working with EFC over a 2 year period in order to identify and assist in no breaches being achieved?
And others.
Having said that at least something is being put forward on behalf of the fans it's whether they accept and acknowledge it.
Lets hope they do...but something tells us otherwise.

They argue that if we were not punished then it would be unfair on those fans of teams that stuck by the rules, just saying that’s what they are saying.

[4evablu]

They argue that if we were not punished then it would be unfair on those fans of teams that stuck by the rules, just saying that’s what they are saying.

ye agree with you. For me that's a moot argument on their part though. On the one hand it's not about the fans (everton fans) on the other hand it's about the fans of other clubs-they cant have it both ways. I think everyone agrees the club should be punished. There are a number of sanctions they could of chosen (6/7 i thinkl) It's the fact they chose a punishment that effects the football team hence the fans. Then the subsequent severity of the punishment and the non open, transparent and "not even playing field" (excuse the pun) process of reaching the punishment. Not withstanding the financial implications and ramifications of a points deduction.

[Goaljira]

Its the points deduction thats caused the problems. The club skirted or broke the rules expecting to get away with a warning, fine or at worst transfer embargo. All of these would have been acceptable to the outgoing owner as minimal costs of disposal. The massive points deduction and now threat of a second one has completely fucked it, and the club are panicking as its material existance is in the balance.

We've spent beyond our means, and even when we've tried to reign it in we're still a loss making enterprise. The interest payments on the stadium build are probably going to eat up any additional income that will generate.

If we don't survive this season then there's a real chance that the stadium doesn't get finished. We won't be able to fund the end of the build on championship income even for one season. Then even if we come straight back up we'll be limited by whatever the new version of FFP will be based on a year of reduced income, leaving us amongst the favourites to go down with no money to invest in the squad to make it premier league stable as all this time we're still paying off the interest on the money already borrowed.

So we've got to do everything we can to try and argue a reduction in the first deduction and hope that this years accounts are at worst as bad as last years. If we've lost even more than the £20m then we're done whatever calculation they claim to have come up with to work out what points we lose.

[Sirblue57]

If the board has.misled the PL why are they not culpable?

[4evablu]

They do they have a fiduciary duty of responsibility. However, the PL seem loath to punish them as a board and seem hell bent on punishing the club as whole entity instead ie points deduction to the footballing side of the business.

[Toddacelli]

Basically our "defence" made things worse.

Just start a Phoenix club, cba with this anymore.

With, presumably, Potter to run it?