Escalator wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2026 6:44 pm
One person puts forward his case/opinion with a reasonably/plausible argument, the other can only respond in a juvenile fashion referring to a children’s breakfast cereal, great thread lads !
Ok yeah so when Moyes managed him he bombed him out and didn’t play him, and he went on to be a much much much better player under other managers, but what Andy is suggesting is - what if Moyes had had him for longer, and things had actually turned out better for him.
Much to think about. Complete fantasy and one of the maddest attempts at proscribing credit to a manager I’ve ever read.
Talk about arteta (22 when he arrived), baines (22), Fellaini (20) then fair enough. But a player we’ve actually seen come through and not get played?
brap2 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2026 8:31 pm
Ok yeah so when Moyes managed him he bombed him out and didn’t play him, and he went on to be a much much much better player under other managers, but what Andy is suggesting is - what if Moyes had had him for longer, and things had actually turned out better for him.
Much to think about. Complete fantasy and one of the maddest attempts at proscribing credit to a manager I’ve ever read.
Talk about arteta (22 when he arrived), baines (22), Fellaini (20) then fair enough. But a player we’ve actually seen come through and not get played?
What point are you actually making here? That Moyes would never have played him, never ever ever?
Or that what worked for lesser players to allow them to have long careers where they maximised their ability wouldn't apply to Barkley because Moyes didn't play him, even though he might have had he been around in the following seasons?
AjaxAndy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2026 8:59 pm
What point are you actually making here? That Moyes would never have played him, never ever ever?
Or that what worked for lesser players to allow them to have long careers where they maximised their ability wouldn't apply to Barkley because Moyes didn't play him, even though he might have had he been around in the following seasons?
Just think it’s a mad thing to credit Moyes with. What he could have done for Barkley.
But yeah listen, I get what you’re saying. Maybe Moyes’ tough love is actually the best way and exactly what they need.
Moyes won’t play aznou or dibling because the defensive side of their game isn’t as strong aznou is a bit untested but what he is ignoring is the potential big upside offensively they can offer
He's slim and lightweight in a way that a young Ashley Cole was. Wenger got away with it by building a team of giants around him and let the young, pacey ex-striker play at left back and maraud up and down the wing, while continuing to learn the art of defending on the job.
Not saying this could work out the same as the best left back in Premier League history but I don't think the fact he isn't built like a middleweight boxer should hold us back from having a look at him. It's not like our current left back is anything special.
I think Aznou is a very weird case that I judge separately to other young signings in the fact that he got pretty much no minutes.
What's the rationale for not sending him out on loan if he wasn't going to play?
Did we need to keep him where we could control his physical development as this was deemed the biggest issue he had, and sending him on loan somewhere wouldn't have addressed this?
Kerryblueboy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2026 2:11 pm
Moyes won’t play aznou or dibling because the defensive side of their game isn’t as strong aznou is a bit untested but what he is ignoring is the potential big upside offensively they can offer
I’m enjoying the debate as to whether Moyes is good (holds back the very young until they are battle ready) or bad (relies on favourites and denies young talent the chance to blossom) for young players. I am a little surprised though that so much of it uses Aznou as possible example of the latter. I get it with Armstrong having seen him develop game by game before holding him back by keeping him with us when he’d be far better continuing his development by returning to Preston. I can even understand Dibling as he has shown at Southampton and in glimpses with us that there is a player there. Rohl could be seen as an example of both the good and the bad Moyes.
But Aznou? He’s shown absolutely nothing to suggest he is anywhere near ready for the Premier League. He’s incredibly lightweight. The idea that could be compensated by the potential, possible, maybe incredible things he can do going forward is at the very least, tenuous. Maybe he could give us more attacking potential than Myko but that is equally likely to be at the cost of 3-4 goals coming down our left side week in and week out.
There is a question to be asked, do we have a plan for his development? Why hasn’t he at least gone out on loan? At the same time, we don’t know if he’d been offered as a loaner, if anyone had inquired for him, if we preferred to keep him in-house for whatever development plan Moyes and the back-room team have in mind or if his face doesn’t fit and Moyes can’t be arsed with him. It is a bit of mystery but I think more an outlier than the treatment of the likes of Armstrong, Dibling and even Rohl.
Mouse wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2026 4:18 pm
I’m enjoying the debate as to whether Moyes is good (holds back the very young until they are battle ready) or bad (relies on favourites and denies young talent the chance to blossom) for young players. I am a little surprised though that so much of it uses Aznou as possible example of the latter. I get it with Armstrong having seen him develop game by game before holding him back by keeping him with us when he’d be far better continuing his development by returning to Preston. I can even understand Dibling as he has shown at Southampton and in glimpses with us that there is a player there. Rohl could be seen as an example of both the good and the bad Moyes.
But Aznou? He’s shown absolutely nothing to suggest he is anywhere near ready for the Premier League. He’s incredibly lightweight. The idea that could be compensated by the potential, possible, maybe incredible things he can do going forward is at the very least, tenuous. Maybe he could give us more attacking potential than Myko but that is equally likely to be at the cost of 3-4 goals coming down our left side week in and week out.
There is a question to be asked, do we have a plan for his development? Why hasn’t he at least gone out on loan? At the same time, we don’t know if he’d been offered as a loaner, if anyone had inquired for him, if we preferred to keep him in-house for whatever development plan Moyes and the back-room team have in mind or if his face doesn’t fit and Moyes can’t be arsed with him. It is a bit of mystery but I think more an outlier than the treatment of the likes of Armstrong, Dibling and even Rohl.
Nevermind loaning him out, I can’t understand why him and Dibling weren’t featuring for the reserves, all they’ve done all season is train.
Last edited by Bluebridge on Wed Jun 10, 2026 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mouse wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2026 4:18 pm
I’m enjoying the debate as to whether Moyes is good (holds back the very young until they are battle ready) or bad (relies on favourites and denies young talent the chance to blossom) for young players. I am a little surprised though that so much of it uses Aznou as possible example of the latter. I get it with Armstrong having seen him develop game by game before holding him back by keeping him with us when he’d be far better continuing his development by returning to Preston. I can even understand Dibling as he has shown at Southampton and in glimpses with us that there is a player there. Rohl could be seen as an example of both the good and the bad Moyes.
But Aznou? He’s shown absolutely nothing to suggest he is anywhere near ready for the Premier League. He’s incredibly lightweight. The idea that could be compensated by the potential, possible, maybe incredible things he can do going forward is at the very least, tenuous. Maybe he could give us more attacking potential than Myko but that is equally likely to be at the cost of 3-4 goals coming down our left side week in and week out.
There is a question to be asked, do we have a plan for his development? Why hasn’t he at least gone out on loan? At the same time, we don’t know if he’d been offered as a loaner, if anyone had inquired for him, if we preferred to keep him in-house for whatever development plan Moyes and the back-room team have in mind or if his face doesn’t fit and Moyes can’t be arsed with him. It is a bit of mystery but I think more an outlier than the treatment of the likes of Armstrong, Dibling and even Rohl.
I suppose my argument is in games where we are struggling to break teams down why he wouldn’t try aznou instead of myko for 15/20 minutes he showed in his brief cameo against Sunderland that he has something to offer it’s the reluctance to change and rigidly sticking to his own guys that will cost him eventually
