Thelwell talking strategy

[777Kidnappings]

He got loads of guys out the door who were on big wages which you were moaning about for ages and brought in more good than average players imo a couple of misses but not at huge costs like before he is operating with one hand tied so I think he is doing well

Who are these guys on big wages he got out?? Are we giving him credit for contracts running out?

[sam of the south]

Here's the article and technically requires a subscription to read - it's absolutely massive so I won't copy and paste it here, but anyone interested can easily do the same:

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/ever ... al-3390245

Echoes here however of that infamous Kenwright quote...

A few weeks ago, Thelwell was presenting at a conference of fellow sporting directors.

After he had spoken in depth about Everton’s behind-the-scenes restructure, he had a tap on the shoulder from someone working for one of the Premier League’s elite clubs. “You’ve got a better process, vision and strategy than we have,” they told him. “It’s just that you’re near the bottom of the league and we’re near the top.”

The name of the club and individual is withheld for obvious reasons but the anecdote is revealing.

This and the headlock definitely happened

[AjaxAndy]

Probably should move the discussion about him here. This is a list of all his signings since he joined. Prices in euros as that's what they're listed as on Transfermarkt.

= Success
= Neither success not failure
= Failure

22/23

Onana - €39.87m *
McNeil - €17m
Maupay - €11.8m
Garner - €10.04m
Gueye - €4m
Tarkowski - Free
Coady - Loan
Vinagre - Loan

23/24

Beto - €25m
Chermiti - €12.5m
Danjuma - Loan
Young - Free
Harrison - Loan -

24/25

O'Brien - €19.5m
Ndaiye - €18m
Tim - €10.70m
Lindstrom - Loan
Broja - Loan
Mangala - Loan -
Harrison - Loan -

Some will argue that certain players like Danjuma were only not a success because of the manager but this focuses purely on whether the transfer was successful, if not and it's because the manager didn't play them I'd say that's been a failure because we are we buying or loaning players a manager doesn't want.

*Onana is a successful transfer because we flipped him for profit. We paid waaaay more than we should have been paying for a single player given all the other areas of weakness and whilst we sold for a fair profit I don't really agree with buying players for this price who have played very little footy. He also didn't contribute a huge amount overall to justify such a high fee. We did sell for profit though so in that regard it was a success.

Obviously this is just my opinion, feel free to copy and paste with your own ratings.

[NickNack]

I wouldn’t call O’Brien a failure yet as it could be argued he’s one for the future and we’ve seen too little of him to say one way or t’other

Same with Broja - although you can question the wisdom of signing someone who is crocked for half the season, for all we know he could yet score enough to keep us up. I know it’s the hope that kills ya

Young - Awful for a large part of his time here but put in some half decent performances more recently and is versatile so maybe an OK- or an X+

Hard to disagree with most of the others. Even allowing for the difficult circumstances he’s had to work under it doesn’t look great does it.

Time will tell if we get another manager in who manages to get more out of them than Dyche has. If he can’t whose fault will it be, Thelwell or the new manager?

[AjaxAndy]

I wouldn’t call O’Brien a failure yet as it could be argued he’s one for the future and we’ve seen too little of him to say one way or t’other

Same with Broja - although you can question the wisdom of signing someone who is crocked for half the season, for all we know he could yet score enough to keep us up. I know it’s the hope that kills ya

Young - Awful for a large part of his time here but put in some half decent performances more recently and is versatile so maybe an OK-

Hard to disagree with most of the others. Even allowing for the difficult circumstances he’s had to work under it doesn’t look great does it.

Time will tell if we get another manager in who manages to get more out of them than Dyche has. If he can’t whose fault will it be, Thelwell or the new manager?

Yeah harsh on O'Brien tbf because he's not played. I based it purely on never playing but I also think we signed him in case Branthwaite was sold late on in the window, so in some ways it made sense.

I couldn't decide with Young because he has been decent enough this season, but he was terrible last year and I think the fact we have him means we didn't address that area this year which overall makes it a bad signing. Probably a little harsh on Young but I doubt any of us actually want him in the team.

[TheRam]

Talk about missing the point.

Fuck me.

[AjaxAndy]

Talk about missing the point.

Fuck me.

Missing what point? The fact he's had to work in extremely difficult circumstances... The point I've mentioned multiple times in various posts?

Or that none of his signings have been poor as it's all Dyche?

Or that we need to separate what Dyche has done and what Thelwell have done and judge each on their own merits... which is a point others seem reluctant to engage with.

[Raptor]

Probably should move the discussion about him here. This is a list of all his signings since he joined. Prices in euros as that's what they're listed as on Transfermarkt.

= Success
= Neither success not failure
= Failure

22/23

Onana - €39.87m *
McNeil - €17m
Maupay - €11.8m
Garner - €10.04m
Gueye - €4m
Tarkowski - Free
Coady - Loan
Vinagre - Loan

23/24

Beto - €25m
Chermiti - €12.5m
Danjuma - Loan
Young - Free
Harrison - Loan -

24/25

O'Brien - €19.5m
Ndaiye - €18m
Tim - €10.70m
Lindstrom - Loan
Broja - Loan
Mangala - Loan -
Harrison - Loan -

Some will argue that certain players like Danjuma were only not a success because of the manager but this focuses purely on whether the transfer was successful, if not and it's because the manager didn't play them I'd say that's been a failure because we are we buying or loaning players a manager doesn't want.

*Onana is a successful transfer because we flipped him for profit. We paid waaaay more than we should have been paying for a single player given all the other areas of weakness and whilst we sold for a fair profit I don't really agree with buying players for this price who have played very little footy. He also didn't contribute a huge amount overall to justify such a high fee. We did sell for profit though so in that regard it was a success.

Obviously this is just my opinion, feel free to copy and paste with your own ratings.

Like you said, it's your opinion, but you contradict yourself within, so maybe a bit more consistency.
Dyche is actually playing Lindstrom in most games, yet you have him as a failure, yet Mangala, who he doesn't play is indifferent. Similarly, how is Young a failure based on the criteria you applied, I think he's shit, but he appears to be the first name on the team sheet.
All the loans imo are fine, were fighting with one hand behind our back, shoelaces tied, and a patch over our eye, we have to take what's out there to a certain extent.
The only ones I think are poor are Maupay and O'Brien, I think Beto is an alright back up, and 25m is about what you pay for a back up, the issue is our back up is being exposed to more minutes than he should as the starting striker is shit.

[AjaxAndy]

Like you said, it's your opinion, but you contradict yourself within, so maybe a bit more consistency.
Dyche is actually playing Lindstrom in most games, yet you have him as a failure, yet Mangala, who he doesn't play is indifferent. Similarly, how is Young a failure based on the criteria you applied, I think he's shit, but he appears to be the first name on the team sheet.
All the loans imo are fine, were fighting with one hand behind our back, shoelaces tied, and a patch over our eye, we have to take what's out there to a certain extent.
The only ones I think are poor are Maupay and O'Brien, I think Beto is an alright back up, and 25m is about what you pay for a back up, the issue is our back up is being exposed to more minutes than he should as the starting striker is shit.

I think Lindstrom is a failure as he's been pretty crap. He's playing most games because he's less crap then Harrison but he's still crap... He's not contributed at all other than being a body on the pitch so imo he's been a flop.

Mangala actually looks decent and offers us something other players in that position don't which is why I said he's been an ok signing, I do appreciate what you're saying though as the manager doesn't seem to fancy him which probably does move him more towards the than .

Young has been a terrible signing for multiple reasons, even though he plays every week I'd still have him down as a failure. I don't think anyone's enjoyed having him in this team and even his reasonable run of form comes at a cost of us being extra defensive because he can't get up and down.

[777Kidnappings]

Like you said, it's your opinion, but you contradict yourself within, so maybe a bit more consistency.
Dyche is actually playing Lindstrom in most games, yet you have him as a failure, yet Mangala, who he doesn't play is indifferent. Similarly, how is Young a failure based on the criteria you applied, I think he's shit, but he appears to be the first name on the team sheet.
All the loans imo are fine, were fighting with one hand behind our back, shoelaces tied, and a patch over our eye, we have to take what's out there to a certain extent.
The only ones I think are poor are Maupay and O'Brien, I think Beto is an alright back up, and 25m is about what you pay for a back up, the issue is our back up is being exposed to more minutes than he should as the starting striker is shit.

25m is what you pay for a backup striker but like you point out our starting striker is shit. You don't pay 25m for a backup to someone who's shit.

[Toshyboy]

Joke people are even judging Thelwell, he hasn’t had opportunity to do what he wants or put his stamp on things.

He’s not shopping at Waitrose or even Aldi and Lidl to put his food on the table. He’s having to feed us from a food bank and to take what he can get and make it work as best he can.

Can only truly be judged post takeover for me

[AjaxAndy]

Joke people are even judging Thelwell, he hasn’t had opportunity to do what he wants or put his stamp on things.

He’s not shopping at Waitrose or even Aldi and Lidl to put his food on the table. He’s having to feed us from a food bank and to take what he can get and make it work as best he can.

Can only truly be judged post takeover for me

It's a fair argument and maybe not one I'd necessarily be arguing against were it not for the fact his contract is up at the end of the year.

The main question is that based on what he's done here, albeit in very difficult circumstances, would you renew him or bring in someone new with fresh ideas that's got a good track record?

[777Kidnappings]

Joke people are even judging Thelwell, he hasn’t had opportunity to do what he wants or put his stamp on things.

He’s not shopping at Waitrose or even Aldi and Lidl to put his food on the table. He’s having to feed us from a food bank and to take what he can get and make it work as best he can.

Can only truly be judged post takeover for me

Why can we judge anyone pre takeover then. Lampard, benitez, Rondon, Dyche. You lower the bar because it's a shitshow but you're suggesting there's no bar. Easiest job in the world if there's no bar

[Kerryblueboy]

Pure deflection here calling o Brien a failure when dyche hasn’t played him

[Toshyboy]

Why can we judge anyone pre takeover then. Lampard, benitez, Rondon, Dyche. You lower the bar because it's a shitshow but you're suggesting there's no bar. Easiest job in the world if there's no bar

All the managers are there to get the best out of the players at their disposal. The question with regards to them for me is are they getting the most out of the players available. That’s where it gets subjective re Dyche. Personally I feel the squad albeit limited is capable of more, so that coupled with results mean he should go.

Do the people who want him to stay genuinely believe he is getting the maximum out of this group?