Liverpool being bellends

[Brownie]

Massive whataboutary this mate.

If the old site was still going you can go and see my posts on Usmanov and what I thought of him being a part of Everton.

Even got pelters at the ground when I walked down to protest

Was one of the very few fans who thought we fully deserved the points deduction because of what I thought was rampant corruption within the club.

My conscience is clear.

But there’s still a world of difference between that and what’s happening at Newcastle.

Newcastle are part of a wide sportswashing movement designed to detract from what is an incredibly oppressive regime.

Their owners make decisions that oppress women, oppress people of the LGBTQ community, commits war crimes and kills journalists who dare to speak out, among many other things.

This is so far from the underdog, fairytale story people think it is.

It’s one of the worst things to happen in the game.

I remember you being vocal about it on the old site.

[AjaxAndy]

It's an interesting debate, basically boils down to if a fan base should be allowed to celebrate winning a trophy for the first time in 50+ years because of something they can't control.

I get the argument about the club ownership but think it's incredibly idealistic to expect fans not to celebrate their team doing something they've not managed in half a century, or to expect other team's fans to not be happy for those supporters.

[Gash]

'It is very difficult to separate the success of the club from the ownership' - https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/arti ... w13gl94wpo

[74Blue]

Their owners make decisions that oppress women, oppress people of the LGBTQ community, commits war crimes and kills journalists who dare to speak out, among many other things.

Russia is such a wonderful inclusive place, where everybody is accepted for who they are. The LGBTQ community is made very welcome in Russia, and Racism doesn't exist there either.
Vladimir Putin would not dream of illegally invading another country.
They also have absolutely no knowledge of Novichok.

Same shit, just delivered by a different arsehole.

Saudi Arabia does not hold the monopoly on atrocity. There are plenty of other absolute cunts in this world. What the atrocities going on in Saudi Arabia has to do with a load of Geordies getting on the piss and actually enjoying a day out at Wembley for the first time in 70 years, I don't know. It's not the fans who are committing these heinous acts, same as it was not Everton fans committing the horrid shit that's going on every day in Russia, nor were we responsible for Russia marching into Ukraine 3 years ago.

Like I said, we were quite happy to accept Usmanov's dirty money without regard for the horrible shit that had gone on whilst he was acquiring it.

We had a World Cup in Qatar a couple of years ago. I don't remember there being a queue of countries boycotting it. Yes, there was a bit of dissent, but it went ahead successfully. Qatar is far from squeaky clean.

How many people are happy to turn a blind eye to Netanyahu's atrocities, somehow justifying it with "Israel has every right to defend itself". Does that extend to starving innocent civilians and denying them even the most basic of human needs, whilst continuing to shell the shit out of them?

Not whataboutery at all, just acceptance that the world is not a perfect place. Just an acceptance that whilst we may not be entirely happy about how our clubs are run, ultimately money still talks and that's not changing anytime soon.

[TheRam]

Russia is such a wonderful inclusive place, where everybody is accepted for who they are. The LGBTQ community is made very welcome in Russia, and Racism doesn't exist there either.
Vladimir Putin would not dream of illegally invading another country.
They also have absolutely no knowledge of Novichok.

Same shit, just delivered by a different arsehole.

Saudi Arabia does not hold the monopoly on atrocity. There are plenty of other absolute cunts in this world. What the atrocities going on in Saudi Arabia has to do with a load of Geordies getting on the piss and actually enjoying a day out at Wembley for the first time in 70 years, I don't know. It's not the fans who are committing these heinous acts, same as it was not Everton fans committing the horrid shit that's going on every day in Russia, nor were we responsible for Russia marching into Ukraine 3 years ago.

Like I said, we were quite happy to accept Usmanov's dirty money without regard for the horrible shit that had gone on whilst he was acquiring it.

We had a World Cup in Qatar a couple of years ago. I don't remember there being a queue of countries boycotting it. Yes, there was a bit of dissent, but it went ahead successfully. Qatar is far from squeaky clean.

How many people are happy to turn a blind eye to Netanyahu's atrocities, somehow justifying it with "Israel has every right to defend itself". Does that extend to starving innocent civilians and denying them even the most basic of human needs, whilst continuing to shell the shit out of them?

Not whataboutery at all, just acceptance that the world is not a perfect place. Just an acceptance that whilst we may not be entirely happy about how our clubs are run, ultimately money still talks and that's not changing anytime soon.

Russia didn’t own and run us

Saudi Arabia own and run newcastle.

That’s the big difference.

There was just enough distance between ourselves, Usmanov and the Russian state for his involvement to be palatable even if I didn’t like it.

Newcastle are directly owned and ran by an oppressive state and they make no attempt to hide it.

They can have their time in the sun and if they want to ignore the politics side to just enjoy the football the ok, but it’s important to not forget why they’re now in a position to win trophies and this kind of thing is what will eventually be the death of top level football in this country.

[Shogun]

Also that their whole involvement in sport across the world is for the purpose of sportswashing. They want to have millions of people saying "what about America?" "What about Russia?", they want people to not talk about their diabolical human rights record. They want to be seen lifting trophies across the world as though they're the good guys.

Big difference between that and what was happening with Usmanov. He wasn't investing in Everton football club to improve the views of Russia and cover up their business. He wouldn't even commit to being the public face of the club.

This isn't just a Saudi bloke investing in a club. They're owned by the country.

[biziclop]

Sure, we can say it's all crooked, and that is absolutely true except it's not a very useful thing to say.

Anyone with enough money to buy and run a Premier League club has blood on their hands one way or another.

But if we look at the "one way or another" part, there's an awful lot of difference between what was basically a cynical robber baron doing some probable recreational money laundering and an actual 21st century theocracy trying to get the rest of the world forget that they're a brutal and murderous regime.

Does this difference matter?

Yes, I think it matters a lot and it's precisely because it is the worst people who are pouring billions and billions into trying to convince us that it doesn't.

[Bob Sacamano]

Sportswashing is totally working though isn’t it. Got people like “hey, oppressors gon’ oppress ”

[AjaxAndy]

Comes down to people expecting the fans to not accept what happens on the pitch through something they can't control though doesn't it? Never going to happen.

Literally no one wants oppressive states owning clubs, no one thinks the Saudi regime is anything but abhorrent, but can you really expect Newcastle supporters not to continue to support the team and then celebrate because they've won a cup? No surely not?

It's not just sports washing btw, how many here have been on Facebook in the past 24 hours, how many have played FC25 this week or a Capcom game? Their tentacles reach far and wide across the globe, is anyone boycotting their social media or favourite video games in protest?

It's good that their ownership gets highlighted at times like this don't get me wrong, that's hugely important and valid... But we also need to let the fans, some who have lived decades of their lives standing on the terraces cheering on their team for no reward enjoy seeing their heroes lift a trophy. There has to be some separation there.

[Bob Sacamano]

Shows you what a smart tactic sportswashing is.

[TheRam]

Stop with the stupid, nonsense what about stuff lads.

What about FC25? Don’t see you protesting that.

Fuck me.

[TheRam]

Comes down to people expecting the fans to not accept what happens on the pitch through something they can't control though doesn't it? Never going to happen.

Literally no one wants oppressive states owning clubs, no one thinks the Saudi regime is anything but abhorrent, but can you really expect Newcastle supporters not to continue to support the team and then celebrate because they've won a cup? No surely not?

It's not just sports washing btw, how many here have been on Facebook in the past 24 hours, how many have played FC25 this week or a Capcom game? Their tentacles reach far and wide across the globe, is anyone boycotting their social media or favourite video games in protest?

It's good that their ownership gets highlighted at times like this don't get me wrong, that's hugely important and valid... But we also need to let the fans, some who have lived decades of their lives standing on the terraces cheering on their team for no reward enjoy seeing their heroes lift a trophy. There has to be some separation there.

Your last paragraph is literally advocating sportswashing.

[AjaxAndy]

Your last paragraph is literally advocating sportswashing.

Literally not FFS. I'm talking about ordinary working people looking for escapism the same way you or I do by supporting our football team.

It's incredibly idealistic and unreasonable to expect every day folk to what? Not celebrate their team winning a trophy? Just mental.

I think your issue with PIF and ownership rules is 100% valid, but you need to have some awareness of how everyday folk like yourself work hard and their week revolves around watching their team play, and how that won't ever change regardless of who owns the club and their suitability or motives for doing so.

[TheRam]

Literally not FFS. I'm talking about ordinary working people looking for escapism the same way you or I do by supporting our football team.

It's incredibly idealistic and unreasonable to expect every day folk to what? Not celebrate their team winning a trophy? Just mental.

I think your issue with PIF and ownership rules is 100% valid, but you need to have some awareness of how everyday folk like yourself work hard and their week revolves around watching their team play, and how that won't ever change regardless of who owns the club and their suitability or motives for doing so.

You’re saying there needs to be a separation from what then?

You’re the one saying Newcastle fans and football fans in general should ignore the ownership and politics around them to be happy for them winning a trophy. That’s sportswashing.

I’m not willing to do that.

Not once have I said they shouldn’t celebrate a trophy. You can do that whilst also questioning how you got there and whether it’s right.

They have celebrated and defending the ownership countless times and they should be ashamed at how willing they’ve been to sell their own club out to a murderous regime.

I’m more than aware of what these clubs mean to their communities which is why I don’t what to see them being destroyed by regimes that use them as a geopolitical pawn.

Good for them though, let’s see what this club looks like in ten years time. It will be Newcastle United in nothing but the name.

[AjaxAndy]

They have celebrated and defending the ownership countless times and they should be ashamed at how willing they’ve been to sell their own club out to a murderous regime.

I’m more than aware of what these clubs mean to their communities which is why I don’t what to see them being destroyed by regimes that use them as a geopolitical pawn.

Good for them though, let’s see what this club looks like in ten years time. It will be Newcastle United in nothing but the name.

Who are you even talking about? I live up here, pretty much everyone I know is a Geordie or plastic Geordie. But it's good you can speak on their behalf, I'm sure they'll appreciate it

Most Newcastle fans have a very uneasy relationship with PIF owning them, but they understand there's not much they can do about it and don't want to give up their season ticket and end up at the back of a 10 year waiting list to get it back. They all just want to go and support the team they've always supported, as their dad's did and their grandparents.