He’s done it consistently with Burnley.
Why wouldn’t he do it here?
We would be 12th without the deduction.
Feel like I’m saying that an awful lot.
Dyche - HE'S GONE
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Kerryblueboy
- Posts: 2502
- Karma: 689
Re: Dyche
And if we could win at home we might be 7/8 in the table his approach to home games is totally wrong
Re: Dyche
We play to the level of our opposition too much.Toddacelli wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 7:34 am I hate how we play better when we go behind and then don’t do enough to take 3 points. Why can’t we start like that and get in front, instead of trying desperately for 80 minutes for a fucking equaliser?
When we play poorly it's often when we're against the bottom half, or have some advantage we don't take, and we seem to do alot better against the top half teams, in the main at least.
We get little to nothing from either.
Same goes for during games, against poor teams we'll miss the chances to kill a game, and then concede late when we'd been playing well.
Re: Dyche
Yeah, 1 point ahead of Fulham and I doubt anyone would be thinking 'well they won't have any chance of finishing above the 3 promoted teams next season'.
Re: Dyche
Didn't he get Burnley relegated and then was getting them relegated again until he was sacked first?
Not to mention that he was only a Castagne sitter against Newcastle from getting relegated with us last season, let's not build him into someone infallible of being relegated.
Not to mention that he was only a Castagne sitter against Newcastle from getting relegated with us last season, let's not build him into someone infallible of being relegated.
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Audrey Horne
- Posts: 6120
- Location: 53.4389° N - 2.9662° W
- Karma: 2519
Re: Dyche
I feel like saying 'we would be 12th without deduction' is all well and good. But its not just the results that are rubbish lately. It is the way we are playing. We are absolutely awful. No one can shoot properly.... there is no creativity, no real tactics that I can see.
We are somewhat solid defensively. But even then, if we concede we are pretty much guaranteed to lose, because he has no in-game tactics to change it up.
And his team selection is depressing too.
We are somewhat solid defensively. But even then, if we concede we are pretty much guaranteed to lose, because he has no in-game tactics to change it up.
And his team selection is depressing too.
Re: Dyche
If you think Dyche is holding this team back from being 7th or 8th, then I don’t know what to say to you.
Our attaching and creative options are putrid, it’s as simple as that.
Yes, we could have a go at teams more and get the fullbacks to bomb on etc, but then we’d leave ourselves open and we wouldn’t have the 4th best defence in the league and something to build on.
It’s not pretty or entertaining or fun, but that’s just where the club is - all the quality has been cut out of the squad over the last few years.
Our attaching and creative options are putrid, it’s as simple as that.
Yes, we could have a go at teams more and get the fullbacks to bomb on etc, but then we’d leave ourselves open and we wouldn’t have the 4th best defence in the league and something to build on.
It’s not pretty or entertaining or fun, but that’s just where the club is - all the quality has been cut out of the squad over the last few years.
Re: Dyche
He took Burnley from near the bottom of the championship to 7th place and made them a consistent premier league team on a limited budget.Shogun wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 12:51 pm Didn't he get Burnley relegated and then was getting them relegated again until he was sacked first?
Not to mention that he was only a Castagne sitter against Newcastle from getting relegated with us last season, let's not build him into someone infallible of being relegated.
I don’t know why we have to paint it any different.
He’s a very good manager for limited teams at the bottom of the table.
That’s what we are unfortunately and that’s how he should be judged.
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Bluedylan1
- Posts: 4174
- Karma: 4745
Re: Dyche
I think my concern is that we seem to be getting worse and I'm wondering if that is just that we're going through a difficult period, or whether actually the more exposed players are to Dyche's methods the worse we are getting.
First half of the season, we had some bad results at times, but we had a solid method of getting plenty of attempts on goal in most games. We pressed effectively and won lots of turnovers high up the pitch, and that gave us dangerous situations fairly regularly. With the ball, the football was direct, but we would get 3/4 players around DCL after the initial header, and we would win enough 2nd balls to be difficult to play against. I remember pieces on Sky and MOTD about us playing direct into DCL and then all our midfielders swarming around him for the 2nd ball, and how effective it was. So we could see effective coaching and tactics in action. It wasn't always pretty, but I feel like most of us could happily accept that for the situation we were in.
In the last couple of months, where's it all gone? We're still playing the same balls into DCL, but he is having to chase his own flicks ons. He's completely isolated. There's no runners off the ball for the 2nd ball, there's no swarming in the middle of the pitch, so that you have multiple options to win the 2nd balls. We're not winning turnovers high up the pitch with our pressing. Everyone is static. The other night Pickford was moving beyond the CBs to play long balls.
Are teams dealing with our approach better than they were in the 1st half of the season, or are we just doing it terribly now? If teams have adapted to deal with it, by sitting deeper and mopping up second balls, then that should create space in the middle and you need to mix up your play a bit more and go short into the midfield and look to play your way into the final third. I don't see any evidence of that.
The manager is going to have to show more than he's showing at the moment. It doesn't matter who you are, or what style you play, you simply have to have more than one idea of how to get the ball into the final 3rd in dangerous situations regularly, or teams will adapt and start to deal with it.
First half of the season, we had some bad results at times, but we had a solid method of getting plenty of attempts on goal in most games. We pressed effectively and won lots of turnovers high up the pitch, and that gave us dangerous situations fairly regularly. With the ball, the football was direct, but we would get 3/4 players around DCL after the initial header, and we would win enough 2nd balls to be difficult to play against. I remember pieces on Sky and MOTD about us playing direct into DCL and then all our midfielders swarming around him for the 2nd ball, and how effective it was. So we could see effective coaching and tactics in action. It wasn't always pretty, but I feel like most of us could happily accept that for the situation we were in.
In the last couple of months, where's it all gone? We're still playing the same balls into DCL, but he is having to chase his own flicks ons. He's completely isolated. There's no runners off the ball for the 2nd ball, there's no swarming in the middle of the pitch, so that you have multiple options to win the 2nd balls. We're not winning turnovers high up the pitch with our pressing. Everyone is static. The other night Pickford was moving beyond the CBs to play long balls.
Are teams dealing with our approach better than they were in the 1st half of the season, or are we just doing it terribly now? If teams have adapted to deal with it, by sitting deeper and mopping up second balls, then that should create space in the middle and you need to mix up your play a bit more and go short into the midfield and look to play your way into the final third. I don't see any evidence of that.
The manager is going to have to show more than he's showing at the moment. It doesn't matter who you are, or what style you play, you simply have to have more than one idea of how to get the ball into the final 3rd in dangerous situations regularly, or teams will adapt and start to deal with it.
Re: Dyche
AKA we need a plan B for when Doucouré is out.Bluedylan1 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 3:47 pm I think my concern is that we seem to be getting worse and I'm wondering if that is just that we're going through a difficult period, or whether actually the more exposed players are to Dyche's methods the worse we are getting.
First half of the season, we had some bad results at times, but we had a solid method of getting plenty of attempts on goal in most games. We pressed effectively and won lots of turnovers high up the pitch, and that gave us dangerous situations fairly regularly. With the ball, the football was direct, but we would get 3/4 players around DCL after the initial header, and we would win enough 2nd balls to be difficult to play against. I remember pieces on Sky and MOTD about us playing direct into DCL and then all our midfielders swarming around him for the 2nd ball, and how effective it was. So we could see effective coaching and tactics in action. It wasn't always pretty, but I feel like most of us could happily accept that for the situation we were in.
In the last couple of months, where's it all gone? We're still playing the same balls into DCL, but he is having to chase his own flicks ons. He's completely isolated. There's no runners off the ball for the 2nd ball, there's no swarming in the middle of the pitch, so that you have multiple options to win the 2nd balls. We're not winning turnovers high up the pitch with our pressing. Everyone is static. The other night Pickford was moving beyond the CBs to play long balls.
Are teams dealing with our approach better than they were in the 1st half of the season, or are we just doing it terribly now? If teams have adapted to deal with it, by sitting deeper and mopping up second balls, then that should create space in the middle and you need to mix up your play a bit more and go short into the midfield and look to play your way into the final third. I don't see any evidence of that.
The manager is going to have to show more than he's showing at the moment. It doesn't matter who you are, or what style you play, you simply have to have more than one idea of how to get the ball into the final 3rd in dangerous situations regularly, or teams will adapt and start to deal with it.
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Evertonian in NC
- Posts: 1096
- Karma: 489
Re: Dyche
I think it's pretty simple - keep him as long as we have no money to spend (ie, through next season). Then shake his hand, wish him well at his next stop. None of this "he's earned the right to steer the next chapter" crap. He hasn't. It's not his skillset.
If we let him spend money, we'll regret it dearly. We don't want the BMD Everton shaped in Dyche's image. He's already giving excessive minutes to players who "will do exactly as they are told" (Young, Garner, Gana to a lesser extent) over creative ability and unpredictability (Onana, Harrison, any of the younger alternatives to rolling out Young's corpse).
We'll never get any better/move forward as a club that way (again, that is FINE for right now). Then one season, the wheels will come completely off (like his last at Burnley), and require a full/hard reset.
If we let him spend money, we'll regret it dearly. We don't want the BMD Everton shaped in Dyche's image. He's already giving excessive minutes to players who "will do exactly as they are told" (Young, Garner, Gana to a lesser extent) over creative ability and unpredictability (Onana, Harrison, any of the younger alternatives to rolling out Young's corpse).
We'll never get any better/move forward as a club that way (again, that is FINE for right now). Then one season, the wheels will come completely off (like his last at Burnley), and require a full/hard reset.
"The best you can hope for is to die in your sleep." - Kenny Rogers (plausible Evertonian)
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Kerryblueboy
- Posts: 2502
- Karma: 689
Re: Dyche
Sad sad man our home form is putrid this season ram keeps saying without the penalty we would be 12 in the league I said if we could beat the mighty Luton Fulham palace or wolves at home we could be higher but how dare I criticise your man