Scottish Football

[Mouse]

i think russell will get the boot and ehhm enter stevie gerrard - to me that just makes 100% sense
he would bring rangers back to a decent level
the owners would have to admit to making huge error appointing russell and reconsider gerrard

I admire your faith in Gerrard as a manager. I think he's shite. Got lucky in Scotland to manage the covid year, no fans, no pressure for him or the players to handle. Awful at Villa and hasn't exactly pulled up trees in Saudi.

[Gash]

Doubt they'd have Gerrard back, he's shite. He only won the title because the pressure of ten in a row got to Lennon and he had a complete meltdown, Rangers didn't win the title, Celtic lost it. It was also widely regarded that Beale was the brains behind it all, even when they went to Villa they were doing alright until Beale left for QPR, Beale's a good coach just not a good manager.

[CannockPricey]

Genuine question. In terms of Scottish football as a whole, what difference would even less European football make?
Neither Rangers or Celtic are getting within a million miles of winning a CL so competing in the lower comps might help.

Even if they lose a shit ton of money by not being in Europe, they presumably still have far greater domestic income to put together a stronger side than the rest, and might even play more domestic youngsters. The established top Scottish players already play in England/Italy already.

If it did financially cripple them, would it possibly make the domestic scene more competitive? No one outside the Old Firm has won the title in four decades now which obviously isn't great.

I don't see much of a downside.

[Gash]

Genuine question. In terms of Scottish football as a whole, what difference would even less European football make?
Neither Rangers or Celtic are getting within a million miles of winning a CL so competing in the lower comps might help.

Even if they lose a shit ton of money by not being in Europe, they presumably still have far greater domestic income to put together a stronger side than the rest, and might even play more domestic youngsters. The established top Scottish players already play in England/Italy already.

If it did financially cripple them, would it possibly make the domestic scene more competitive? No one outside the Old Firm has won the title in four decades now which obviously isn't great.

I don't see much of a downside.

It makes a difference in attracting players, if they can offer young players the chance of CL league football they can attract them then possibly sell them on for a decent fee, Celtic have been better than Rangers at that over the years. They need European football, especially CL football to attract better players, better players give them more chance of progressing in the competition so it's a bit of a vicious circle.

But I think saying "what difference does it make" about Rangers and Celtic you might as well say that about 80% of clubs that qualify for the CL, outside the mega rich elite clubs no one's really got a chance of winning it but it doesn't mean the rest should just give up. Whether they win or not even just getting the CL is a lot of money for clubs and for a lot of chairmen and owners that's all that matters.

Scottish football's in a mess and needs reformed from top to bottom and Rangers and Celtic are a huge part of that problem but they're not going anywhere. The money they generate doesn't flow down the system to the smaller clubs, the only time it does is when they play them but it becomes embarrassing when you have a club like Livingston who average about 1,200 for a home game but get 9,000 for an Old Firm game because they allocate three stands to the away fans and it just becomes another home game for them but Livingston can't turn that kind of money away.

Make the Premiership a 16 or 18 team league and at least more teams have a chance of getting some of the Old Firm pie and also would get the more exposure and probably more TV money and then they can stop this nonsense that they have at the moment where there's the top six split at the end of the season.

[CannockPricey]

It makes a difference in attracting players, if they can offer young players the chance of CL league football they can attract them then possibly sell them on for a decent fee, Celtic have been better than Rangers at that over the years. They need European football, especially CL football to attract better players, better players give them more chance of progressing in the competition so it's a bit of a vicious circle.

But I think saying "what difference does it make" about Rangers and Celtic you might as well say that about 80% of clubs that qualify for the CL, outside the mega rich elite clubs no one's really got a chance of winning it but it doesn't mean the rest should just give up. Whether they win or not even just getting the CL is a lot of money for clubs and for a lot of chairmen and owners that's all that matters.

Scottish football's in a mess and needs reformed from top to bottom and Rangers and Celtic are a huge part of that problem but they're not going anywhere. The money they generate doesn't flow down the system to the smaller clubs, the only time it does is when they play them but it becomes embarrassing when you have a club like Livingston who average about 1,200 for a home game but get 9,000 for an Old Firm game because they allocate three stands to the away fans and it just becomes another home game for them but Livingston can't turn that kind of money away.

Make the Premiership a 16 or 18 team league and at least more teams have a chance of getting some of the Old Firm pie and also would get the more exposure and probably more TV money and then they can stop this nonsense that they have at the moment where there's the top six split at the end of the season.

It's my general belief that CL football damages all leagues to be honest. It serves the function of further enriching those who are already richest and adding to the uncompetitiveness of domestic football everywhere. Take the fluke of Leicester 2016 out and English football has been increasingly a cabal since the CL exploded too.

I'd rather have competitive domestic football and you stand a better chance of that without some sides being handed a further financial advantage.

I'm in total agreement with you that it would mean the Old Firm attracting poorer players and the owners would be bleating about less money, but that might make Scottish football more exciting to watch in a way. I certainly don't see how Rangers/Celtic getting less European money disadvantages Falkirk or Dunfermline for example because as you say, it doesn't filter down anyway.

*Not suggesting anyone would propose it, just saying it mightn't necessarily be such a bad thing.

[Mouse]

It's my general belief that CL football damages all leagues to be honest. It serves the function of further enriching those who are already richest and adding to the uncompetitiveness of domestic football everywhere. Take the fluke of Leicester 2016 out and English football has been increasingly a cabal since the CL exploded too.

I'd rather have competitive domestic football and you stand a better chance of that without some sides being handed a further financial advantage.

I'm in total agreement with you that it would mean the Old Firm attracting poorer players and the owners would be bleating about less money, but that might make Scottish football more exciting to watch in a way. I certainly don't see how Rangers/Celtic getting less European money disadvantages Falkirk or Dunfermline for example because as you say, it doesn't filter down anyway.

*Not suggesting anyone would propose it, just saying it mightn't necessarily be such a bad thing.

Not sure of the detailed implications, but Celtic and Rangers failing (along with the rest) damages Scotland's coefficient for European competitions. Meaning less sides qualifying with the outside chance of a Europa League or Conference League payday for the "lesser" clubs, which could help the likes of Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, etc to slowly close the gap to Celtic and Rangers.

[CannockPricey]

Not sure of the detailed implications, but Celtic and Rangers failing (along with the rest) damages Scotland's coefficient for European competitions. Meaning less sides qualifying with the outside chance of a Europa League or Conference League payday for the "lesser" clubs, which could help the likes of Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, etc to slowly close the gap to Celtic and Rangers.

Do you reckon, or do you reckon over any given period of time, the Old Firm make more out of Europe than the others so would lose more if it comes crashing down anyway?

Just genuinely musing, if European involvement for Scottish clubs fell to practically nothing, surely the Old Firm lose more than the others.

I'm just wondering whether the accepted truth of "it's bad for Scottish football" is true. If you want a more interesting, more competitive SPL, I wonder if this wouldn't be a small step towards it rather than another step away.

[Mouse]

Do you reckon, or do you reckon over any given period of time, the Old Firm make more out of Europe than the others so would lose more if it comes crashing down anyway?

Just genuinely musing, if European involvement for Scottish clubs fell to practically nothing, surely the Old Firm lose more than the others.

I'm just wondering whether the accepted truth of "it's bad for Scottish football" is true. If you want a more interesting, more competitive SPL, I wonder if this wouldn't be a small step towards it rather than another step away.

Whatever happens Celtic or Rangers, well Celtic, will get the opportunity to make money through the Champions League or the next levels. So, if the others don’t get any opportunity then that gap grows at a faster rate. At the same time, without some injection of cash from outside the SPL none of the teams trying to challenge the Old Firm will have much chance of improving the quality of their squads.

It is such a distorted market in favour of those two. You could say the EPL is no different it’s just the also rans in the EPL still make enough to be available to afford the like of Dibling and give their fans a glimmer of hope. The equivalent in Scotland, Hibs/Hearts etc. are in the same market as Wrexham or maybe even a step down. Might be slightly exaggerating here

[Gash]

Do you reckon, or do you reckon over any given period of time, the Old Firm make more out of Europe than the others so would lose more if it comes crashing down anyway?

Just genuinely musing, if European involvement for Scottish clubs fell to practically nothing, surely the Old Firm lose more than the others.

I'm just wondering whether the accepted truth of "it's bad for Scottish football" is true. If you want a more interesting, more competitive SPL, I wonder if this wouldn't be a small step towards it rather than another step away.

It's not just about the Old Firm though. It's bad for Scottish football because fewer teams get the chance to play in Europe so also miss out on money, you're looking at it purely from the Old Firms point of view.

If teams like Hearts, Aberdeen, Hibs etc could start qualifying more regularly for Europe and getting into the group stages then that gives them more money and makes them more attractive to potential signings, so hopefully they can then start going deeper in Europe and perhaps even start to knock on the door of the Old Firm.

This week has been a terrible week for Scottish football both in terms of what it does for their future co-efficiency but also the fact that Celtic, a big club even if they don't go deep in CL have been knocked out by an unheard of Kazakhstan team, just the result is an embarrassment never mind the financial side and only adds to 'farmer's league' view people have so both financially and reputationally it's bad. And it's not like Rangers and Celtic haven't done well in Europe in the past, Rangers were in the Europa League Final only three years ago and they've both been in the final once each in the previous 20 years to that.

Scottish footbal has it's deep problems, constantly getting knocked out early in Europe or dropping into the lower competitons only adds to that rather than it not mattering at all.

[Robioto]

This Old Firm Derby has been a dreadful game of football. Bereft of quality.

[Gash]

Two shite teams playing out the first goalless derby at Ibrox since 2011. Two shots on target, both for Celtic.

At least Martin is still undefeated in the league.

[Shogun]

Martin is surely gone now, what an abysmal job he's been doing at Rangers. Ibrox must have been off on one today

[Cozzie]

Was Martin a Thelwell pick?

[Gash]

Was Martin a Thelwell pick?

Yes, although I think they were quite well down the list before they got to him.