Dyche - HE'S GONE

[MayorFarnham]

Takes a special kind of person to think nothing of using language like that in a public place.

[AjaxAndy]

I think people just need to have a bit of patience and rational thought at the moment.

Our 'success' last season was built on a CB pairing and one of those has missed the first two games. Our full back options last season were awful and that hasn't been addressed, but the glue that held things together of Branthwaite and Tarks hasn't been available and we've struggled as a result.

Then we sold Onana and replaced him with at best a gamble on Tim, at worst a PSR bodge... Or most likely a bit of both. It's a downgrade and maybe he'll end up being a decent player for us but he's no Onana at present (and I wasn't Onana's biggest fan).

So we're weaker at the back and weaker in midfield.

It was boys against men against Spurs but just look at the players they had available Vs ours, even their subs would walk in to this team. You'd hope we'd still find a way to at least be competitive, but Keane, Dixon and Tim ain't exactly giving you much of a chance is it?

There was some weird over confidence that because we'd signed Lindstrom and Ndaiye we'd somehow be top half and there's a huge frustration from them not starting, but I really don't think throwing them in from the off would have made a blind bit of difference.

We need one of two things to happen:

1) Branthwaite return and come back at the level he played at last year which might be a tough ask given he's missed all of pre-season and the first 2 games.

2) Branthwaite is sold and we invest the money well in multiple reinforcements that makes us a better team overall (obviously no one has any confidence in us doing that part well).

Over the course of a season and with key players back, new players slowly introduced from the start I'd back Dyche to have us safe barring any points deductions... but really what have people expected in these first 2 matches with the players available and the downgrading of the midfield?

There's some weird over confidence or inability to accept where we are as a team and club that then means people get really upset when their expectations aren't met, but it's their expectations that are the issue here.

Patience is a rare quality these days, maybe if things pan out alright again this year people might stop losing their shit so often... But sadly there's probably more chance of Keane winning the Ballon D'Or

[Escalator]

Great post !

[777Kidnappings]

I think people just need to have a bit of patience and rational thought at the moment.

Our 'success' last season was built on a CB pairing and one of those has missed the first two games. Our full back options last season were awful and that hasn't been addressed, but the glue that held things together of Branthwaite and Tarks hasn't been available and we've struggled as a result.

Then we sold Onana and replaced him with at best a gamble on Tim, at worst a PSR bodge... Or most likely a bit of both. It's a downgrade and maybe he'll end up being a decent player for us but he's no Onana at present (and I wasn't Onana's biggest fan).

So we're weaker at the back and weaker in midfield.

It was boys against men against Spurs but just look at the players they had available Vs ours, even their subs would walk in to this team. You'd hope we'd still find a way to at least be competitive, but Keane, Dixon and Tim ain't exactly giving you much of a chance is it?

There was some weird over confidence that because we'd signed Lindstrom and Ndaiye we'd somehow be top half and there's a huge frustration from them not starting, but I really don't think throwing them in from the off would have made a blind bit of difference.

We need one of two things to happen:

1) Branthwaite return and come back at the level he played at last year which might be a tough ask given he's missed all of pre-season and the first 2 games.

2) Branthwaite is sold and we invest the money well in multiple reinforcements that makes us a better team overall (obviously no one has any confidence in us doing that part well).

Over the course of a season and with key players back, new players slowly introduced from the start I'd back Dyche to have us safe barring any points deductions... but really what have people expected in these first 2 matches with the players available and the downgrading of the midfield?

There's some weird over confidence or inability to accept where we are as a team and club that then means people get really upset when their expectations aren't met, but it's their expectations that are the issue here.

Patience is a rare quality these days, maybe if things pan out alright again this year people might stop losing their shit so often... But sadly there's probably more chance of Keane winning the Ballon D'Or

The last bit is it really. Desperate all the misery barely any of us are really willing to acknowledge just what a mess the club is. It's crazy how we've behaved. Don't think any of the other 19 sets of fans would have blown up like this after 2 awful results. I don't really get it. Yes there's not a lot of credit in the bank for some but the flip side is there shouldn't be much expectation either

[Paddockoldie]

I've always felt we have too high an expectation of success because of our successful neighbours. It's like a chip thing. We needed a billionaire and got one... Champions league here we come. Ancelotti as manager, champions league here we come. Sean Dyche... Championship here we come. I don't think anyone could do better at the moment.

[Raptor]

I've always felt we have too high an expectation of success because of our successful neighbours. It's like a chip thing. We needed a billionaire and got one... Champions league here we come. Ancelotti as manager, champions league here we come. Sean Dyche... Championship here we come. I don't think anyone could do better at the moment.

I think it depends what you class as better. Could other managers produce a better spectacle for us to watch, I don't think that would be hard to achieve. Would there also be a better player/fan interaction, id say yes again, especially if the fans could see us trying to play progressive, attacking football. Dyche is tolerable if you're getting results to numb the pain of the actual performance, but Dyche without the odd win is a truly miserable experience and existence

[superpull]

I think it depends what you class as better. Could other managers produce a better spectacle for us to watch, I don't think that would be hard to achieve. Would there also be a better player/fan interaction, id say yes again, especially if the fans could see us trying to play progressive, attacking football. Dyche is tolerable if you're getting results to numb the pain of the actual performance, but Dyche without the odd win is a truly miserable experience and existence

False dichotomy. Lampard tried to play a more progressive form of football. So did Martinez.

It seems odd to me that all the "better football" fans all completely seem to miss the point that not everybody wants or cares about "styles" or proscribed ways of playing.

Most reasonable people want a manager to play to their players strengths. You need an unlimited budget to do it the other way around.
Our players have very little strengths to play to

[AjaxAndy]

False dichotomy. Lampard tried to play a more progressive form of football. So did Martinez.

It seems odd to me that all the "better football" fans all completely seem to miss the point that not everybody wants or cares about "styles" or proscribed ways of playing.

Most reasonable people want a manager to play to their players strengths. You need an unlimited budget to do it the other way around.
Our players have very little strengths to play to

Also any manager that's losing lots of games will get dogs abuse regardless of style.

There'd be absolutely no point watching someone like De Zerbi trying to get this lot passing around and lose constantly still... People might give it a small amount more time but ultimately there'd be calls for his head the moment we went on a losing streak.

[TheRam]

For most people, style of play doesn’t matter.

If you’re creating more chances than the opposition that’s all that matters.

We’ve had this for the majority of time under dyche, but never really been consistent with results, so the debate turns to his style of play, which in this era will always be a sticking point for people.

When it clicks, this type of football is good. It’s on the front foot, aggressive off the ball, pressing high, forward quick. But when it doesn’t click, it becomes regressive.

I do think people ignore what’s happening on the pitch at times with how we play.

I see a lot of ‘low block’ comments about dyche and don’t think they’re true.

Against spurs our centre halves we’re quite high up the pitch trying to win the ball.

On the ball though we are very poor. I don’t know if dyche believes his off the ball structure is so good that the on the ball stuff doesn’t require much work as we should win the ball in good areas.

Or if he gives the players freedom to do what they want. If that’s the case then we simply don’t have good enough players for that.

Either way, it needs massive improvement.

[Shogun]

Would have to describe our football as ugly rather than particularly negative. The 'low block' stuff is what we saw under Benitez who was such a coward that we would sit off newly promoted teams at Goodison and hope for the best from some of the pace in attack with Gordon and Gray.

Although the wingers have a lot of defensive work, Dyche's football is pretty proactive in terms of the high press. I think he just believes they way he plays will stop the opposition and the physicality will garner a goal from a set piece. Fully believe that Dyche goes into every match looking to win 1-0. It's probably part of the reason we almost always lose any semblance of what looks like a gameplan when we go behind.

[Cods]

For most people, style of play doesn’t matter.

If you’re creating more chances than the opposition that’s all that matters.

We’ve had this for the majority of time under dyche, but never really been consistent with results, so the debate turns to his style of play, which in this era will always be a sticking point for people.

When it clicks, this type of football is good. It’s on the front foot, aggressive off the ball, pressing high, forward quick. But when it doesn’t click, it becomes regressive.

I do think people ignore what’s happening on the pitch at times with how we play.

I see a lot of ‘low block’ comments about dyche and don’t think they’re true.

Against spurs our centre halves we’re quite high up the pitch trying to win the ball.

On the ball though we are very poor. I don’t know if dyche believes his off the ball structure is so good that the on the ball stuff doesn’t require much work as we should win the ball in good areas.

Or if he gives the players freedom to do what they want. If that’s the case then we simply don’t have good enough players for that.

Either way, it needs massive improvement.

Think N'Diaye does have some of what most of our others don't, as far as drive and creative attacking threat, but we're certainly limited.

I think Lindstrom would work well but only really if played with the likes of Patterson, Garner, Harrison Iroegbunam, Chermiti and Gana to do pass and move that would catch the odd team off guard. Lightweight though.

McNeil and Doucouré do need a rest as at the moment they're as damaging as Godfrey was to progressive play. Problem is we can't really drop them due to their other off the ball features, pressing and ground coverage, that we need.

[brap2]

[Cods]

Good to see Keane recognised (must surely be two in a row now) for most progressive passing and xG chain, despite the moans and assumed deadweight status. He's not Branthwaite level at the back but his passing has given us more chances than anyone else so far this season.

The black and white hero-zero mentality comments were spot on, when it's really different shades of grey. Bleakish greys, I'll agree.

[Kerryblueboy]

Imo he has drawn a lot of criticism on himself by not playing at least 2 of his new players from the start of the season playing Keane even though he has done ok has not gone well with the fans plus dcl is so isolated up top he could have played ndayie as a 10 to support him this shite about them not being ready is wearing thin with other clubs playing their new players from the off

[777Kidnappings]

Even if you're right and dyche has been awful these 2 whole games shouldn't there be some credit in the bank after the last 2 seasons

The simple fact is dyche will never be accepted here because it will never be accepted by our fans just where this club stands

2 games in. Off the back of a decent season. Off the back of a season thay finished really well. The reaction on here never mind at the train station has been plain weird. Everton has driven us to madness