AjaxAndy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 10:52 am
At the end of the day O'Brien played on a back 2 in pre-season and looked ropey, he then played in a back 2 in a Caraboa Cup game and didn't look good losing 100% of his arial duels against lower league opposition.
Moyes isn't playing him in a back 2, instead he's doing something he's done before with young CBs and playing him as a full back and also a back 3.
It's very easy to say X or Y would have DEFINITELY happened if something had happened 6 months ago that didn't because there's no way to disprove it. Doesn't actually mean it's true.
If Moyes continues to blood him this way and next season he starts in a back 2 and shines the same people will again say this should have happened sooner even if actually Moyes doing what he's doing what made him ready when he wasn't previously.
It's another cyclical argument where no one wins because there's no way of ever actually knowing what could or would have happened of we'd done something different in the past.
Probably should all just concentrate on the fact Moyes is using him, using him sensibly and O'Brien looks like he's responding with strong performances... Something we can all get behind and celebrate really.
The entire point is that Moyes hasn't done anything that Dyche couldn't have done.
We've spent a lot of money on this kid. Results were shit so a change needed to happen.
There is no way we survive as a club without getting every last drop of value from the majority of our signings.
I was (and am) still more than a bit gutted we have brought in Moyes. But his ability to blood people in and get value from them is undoubted.
Juanito wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 11:03 am
All that mental gymnastics to justify Dyche’s favouritism to one of his Burnley boys.
Everyone prefers that Moyes is here instead of Dyche. Everyone would have taken it before he left, and everyone did once he was gone.
It seems sometimes that there is only black and white and no grey, no nuance, and few on the same page of a discussion in a room full of everyone shouting at and often misinterpreting each other. Nature of the beast I s'pose.
superpull wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 11:14 am
The entire point is that Moyes hasn't done anything that Dyche couldn't have done.
We've spent a lot of money on this kid. Results were shit so a change needed to happen.
There is no way we survive as a club without getting every last drop of value from the majority of our signings.
I was (and am) still more than a bit gutted we have brought in Moyes. But his ability to blood people in and get value from them is undoubted.
100% agree tbf, Dyche became very very tunnel visioned and it became detrimental to results, team moral and performances. Sometimes it takes a fresh pair of eyes to see what the other person couldn't.
I also don't think Dyche has ever blooded a CB at full back before, he seems to expect his CBs to come straight in and dominate so it was always going to be a struggle for JOB to get in under those circumstances. Moyes on the other hand has had success doing exactly this and has identified it immediately as an area where we needed to make a change from Young, and applied his knowledge to the situation my using JOB there. Delighted he has because it's clearly working.
AjaxAndy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 10:52 am
At the end of the day O'Brien played on a back 2 in pre-season and looked ropey, he then played in a back 2 in a Caraboa Cup game and didn't look good losing 100% of his arial duels against lower league opposition.
Moyes isn't playing him in a back 2, instead he's doing something he's done before with young CBs and playing him as a full back and also a back 3.
It's very easy to say X or Y would have DEFINITELY happened if something had happened 6 months ago that didn't because there's no way to disprove it. Doesn't actually mean it's true.
If Moyes continues to blood him this way and next season he starts in a back 2 and shines the same people will again say this should have happened sooner even if actually Moyes doing what he's doing what made him ready when he wasn't previously.
It's another cyclical argument where no one wins because there's no way of ever actually knowing what could or would have happened of we'd done something different in the past.
Probably should all just concentrate on the fact Moyes is using him, using him sensibly and O'Brien looks like he's responding with strong performances... Something we can all get behind and celebrate really.
Even if you go with the argument he isn't ready to play centre back, we are shite at full back so there has been plenty of opportunities to play him.
Juanito wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 7:36 am
I remember a certain poster comments about the reasons why O’Brien is not starting, he’s crap with absolute certainty. Then a smug comment when he didn’t start against Villa, funnily enough, not heard anything else about him since?
Point is, feels like some people get strangely tied into a Dyche shaped argument and can’t shift themselves out of it when the evidence is presented.
People on 'both sides' (I hate that it seems to have turned into that) are guilty of doing that though.
It's nothing new, people get entrenched and the longer it goes on for the harder it is to step back and re-assess if your perspective is still based on the reality of what we're seeing or just focused on proving the other person wrong. I have to check myself from replying to about 3 or 4 different people sometimes, as I know my response is probably more about the person and the way they are then that actual topic.
On o'brien, I watched him once live, against Roma, and he looked hugely suspect. I watched him in his few international appearances since arriving, and he looked miles off it. I didn't see him as a solution at right back (not sure any of us did really) and he was never beating out brainthwaite or tarks. I think he's shown some really positive signs that he's a more complete defender than Keane, and better on the ball than Tarks, and I think we'll see him shift over when Jared leaves, and we bring in a right back who can defend and go past the half way line.
TheRam wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 1:54 pm
I’m not guilty of anything and haven’t took any side and I don’t need people constantly telling me I have.
You don’t have to be on any side to think this lad should have had more minutes under the previous manager.
We should be able to make these points without the same people constantly telling us we’re only saying that because we don’t like dyche.
Micheal Keane very good at the start of the season. I mean, come on. Come the fuck on.
Not sure if that reply was aimed at my comment, but I wasn't aiming it at you.
I agree, showing what we've seen now he totally should have been given more minutes. But as I said, I've seen similar comments in the other direction from people with opposing viewpoints, everyone should be able to make commments without being told to 'take the L' or that 'they must be furious we've won a game' or that they're only saying it because they were a 'dyche apologist'.
Keane did have some good games earlier in the season. So when people seem to just flat out act like it didn't happen, it's not a huge leap to think it might be more about the player and his connection with the manager. You could easily come to that conclusion regardless of who the original poster was.
This Keane was good is a right stretch
He may have been slightly better than Tarkowski but he was awful
Was he hard done to to lose his place t Branthwaite? Maybe, but Tarkowski and Branthwaite worked the season before
Back on the subject of O'Brien however, had he started the season he too would have been hooked once Branthwaite came back.
i am surprised to see him utilised as right back now, conidering his size but, I still cant work out if its 4 at the back or 3 so.....
I would lay blame on them all Keane included quiet how you can say he was playing well and we shipping goals for fun is laughable this topic is about o Brien and how a better coach has found a role for him in the team
