The NSNO Everton Forums

Audrey Horne wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 8:41 am I think it's totally OK to look at what we have been through as fans during the last 20 years or whatever and acknowledge how bad we've had it.

I think our past success is definitely a reason for us to be so down about recent times.

We have been mismanaged so much basically from existence tbh.... we should have paid a few quid more of the rent at Anfield etc

Of course aggression towards players when they are getting on the train is too far. Alot of that is alcohol and stuff. There's no need

But I think it's understandable how the fans feel.

Plus having our main rivals win everything under the sun multiple times ..... it's fucking heartbreaking

I don't like Dyche I don't like his arrogance or the way he is mega defensive- shite tactics blah blah

We have some decent players and a young manager coming through would do better I'm sure.

But hey, Dyche isn't going anywhere so I'm just getting on with it.

Supporting everton has been rotten. Understand the fans anger and frustration but it's at the wrong people. This squad hasn't had proper investment. We haven't had the benefit for competent scouting. Our youth system hasn't been great. Loans for our young players has been shocking

So why get at this squad and this manager. Our club is in ruins and there's a list of 20 before we get onto dyche or any current player when handing out blame ..

Not you because I believe to were quite vocal in not liking kenwright but that man got decades ruining our club and being treated like a hero. Even now people seem to have more anger to Holgate cos he gets 70k a week and he's rubbish. It's too little. It's too late. And it's to the wrong targets

Raptor wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 9:18 am But thats just opinion, based on how he performed throughout the season I think its a a pretty easy argument to say he should've been put in from the off and who knows, maybe we would've won a fair few of those games rather than lose, then the whole team would have been more positive and upbeat?

Just checked and he only missed the first two losses to Fulham and Villa. I doubt he'd have made that much difference to either as we picked up only one point from the next 3 games. Christ, one point from the first 5 games last seaon, I'd forgotten just how bad we were. Anyway, it's all ifs, buts and maybes and all of it is equally "just opinion".

I have no issue arguing for O'Brien to be in ahead of Keane (with the caveat I don't see O'Brien in training) or the pros and cons of playing the new recruits earlier. My main point was that it's a bit mad to suggest Dyche should not pick Keane because it upsets some of the fans.

Football management is all about the last game and next game...my criticism of Dyche is he doesn't seem to learn...the first game of the season at home especially... is always a game that sets the tone....he didn't set the team up correctly to suit the players he had available and it showed when we give them 2 goals both from transitional play! no matter who your playing against first game... the team... the tactics should be set to win the game...or at least not lose it...sadly it was same old same old.....

Then spurs... no one expected a win away to spurs... so to basically start the same team...(dixon excluded) adopt the same tactics was asking for trouble...DCL is practically a spectator with the team selection and tactics is it any wonder he wants out....who expected pickford to do what he did ? not Dyche' fault and again 2-0 down and game over....
What we don't know is what the new players will bring..why? because he wont start them...? That's down to Dyche....

I can see why fans are upset and very disappointed with the start we have made. It’s understandable, especially if you have watched both of the opening games.

I didn’t watch on Saturday. I was up in Scotland enjoying 30mph winds and heavy rain in 12’c. So not much better than watching us really.

At the end of the day, it’s just 2 football results against 2 very good sides. It is a 38 game season. I personally don’t see the point in getting carried away. As many have said, Dyche has credit in the bank and we have been here many times before.

Let’s see where we are after 10 games and that might give a bit more of an indication as to how this season might go.

777Kidnappings wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 9:28 am Supporting everton has been rotten. Understand the fans anger and frustration but it's at the wrong people. This squad hasn't had proper investment. We haven't had the benefit for competent scouting. Our youth system hasn't been great. Loans for our young players has been shocking

So why get at this squad and this manager. Our club is in ruins and there's a list of 20 before we get onto dyche or any current player when handing out blame ..

Not you because I believe to were quite vocal in not liking kenwright but that man got decades ruining our club and being treated like a hero. Even now people seem to have more anger to Holgate cos he gets 70k a week and he's rubbish. It's too little. It's too late. And it's to the wrong targets

I agree it is the wrong targets but as a fan base (like most fan bases) we attack the immediate. And thats the squad, thats the manager.

Its easier to shout shit at players on the pitch in front of us, than to figure out how to get to those in power.

777Kidnappings wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 6:55 am Even if you're right and dyche has been awful these 2 whole games shouldn't there be some credit in the bank after the last 2 seasons

The simple fact is dyche will never be accepted here because it will never be accepted by our fans just where this club stands

2 games in. Off the back of a decent season. Off the back of a season thay finished really well. The reaction on here never mind at the train station has been plain weird. Everton has driven us to madness

I've never been closer to stepping away from football in part because of this. I gave away or sold my ticket to 4 games last season, and 3 the season before because at times it was just so toxic and draining.

I've completely given up on twitter and any other forum, and honestly reddit has become one of the more balanced communities, purely because half the fans aren't uk based and invested in the same way.

I don't think it helps that any, even mild, criticism of Dyche draws some responses of "I can't believe how ungrateful you are. Do you know where we'd be without him? You don't realise how absolutely shit we are."

Even Pep gets criticised on Man City forums from time to time and Dyche is far far far from infallible.

The 'he didn't start Branthwaite for the first 2 games of last season' seems to always ignore the brilliant work Dyche did making this kid an £80m player.

Made him earn his place in the team, then kept him in once he had and made him a mainstay of the team.

There's nothing wrong with making people earn their place, you don't have to start new players over existing, and once they do get a start then it's up to them to keep the spot... Or for the other player to win it back.

I think people make waaaay too much of this particular issue through desperation more than anything else.

Shogun wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 11:12 am I don't think it helps that any, even mild, criticism of Dyche draws some responses of "I can't believe how ungrateful you are. Do you know where we'd be without him? You don't realise how absolutely shit we are."

Even Pep gets criticised on Man City forums from time to time and Dyche is far far far from infallible.

Agreed. It is a bit odd how touchy and defensive some (not all) of the people who constantly defend Dyche are, when mild and often totally reasonable criticisms are made. As you say, even the best managers have their weaknesses and blind spots.

Like it's fine to admit that he's super conservative when integrating new players. A number of us predicted that would be the case in pre-season and that has transpired. It's also fine to say he doesn't have much of a plan with the ball, and most of his work is around organisation, shape and pressing.

It's fine to concede parts of an argument and not defend every single aspect of what a manager does. Those of us who aren't that keen on Dyche are happy to acknowledge that he's a good organiser, that he is better suited to working in crisis situations than many other managers and that he's done very well to get us clear of relegation with the points deductions.

AjaxAndy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 12:00 pm The 'he didn't start Branthwaite for the first 2 games of last season' seems to always ignore the brilliant work Dyche did making this kid an £80m player.

Made him earn his place in the team, then kept him in once he had and made him a mainstay of the team.

There's nothing wrong with making people earn their place, you don't have to start new players over existing, and once they do get a start then it's up to them to keep the spot... Or for the other player to win it back.

I think people make waaaay too much of this particular issue through desperation more than anything else.

Earn his place over a guy who has been an absolute liability here for the past few years and branthwaite only got in the team after Keane royally fucked up away at villa let’s not forget that either

Bluedylan1 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 12:21 pm Agreed. It is a bit odd how touchy and defensive some (not all) of the people who constantly defend Dyche are, when mild and often totally reasonable criticisms are made. As you say, even the best managers have their weaknesses and blind spots.

Like it's fine to admit that he's super conservative when integrating new players. A number of us predicted that would be the case in pre-season and that has transpired. It's also fine to say he doesn't have much of a plan with the ball, and most of his work is around organisation, shape and pressing.

It's fine to concede parts of an argument and not defend every single aspect of what a manager does. Those of us who aren't that keen on Dyche are happy to acknowledge that he's a good organiser, that he is better suited to working in crisis situations than many other managers and that he's done very well to get us clear of relegation with the points deductions.

As above though. People bring up branthwaite not playing for a couple of games without acknowledging how he's now a 60-70m player. It's an incredibly weird stick to beat the manager with

I'm not remotely touché when it comes to dyche. Don't think anyone defends him really past saying we need to remember how crap we are. No one has actually claimed he's done well these 2 games and got everything right. My feeling is I don't know if Keane is better than o brien or not. I don't understand the level of feeling for that decision though even if he's wrong. Same with playing young. Yeah he's a bit rubbish but so are all the other options. You'd think he was being picked over prime cafu the anger it provokes. Playing doucoure though. I can understand that anger

Shogun wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 11:12 am I don't think it helps that any, even mild, criticism of Dyche draws some responses of "I can't believe how ungrateful you are. Do you know where we'd be without him? You don't realise how absolutely shit we are."

Even Pep gets criticised on Man City forums from time to time and Dyche is far far far from infallible.

I can't speak for every post on here but I'd say I read most of it, and it's rare that kind of response is that defensive or in response to legitimate criticism of a specific aspect of Dyche's approach. Most of the time it's directly in response to a blanket criticism of dyche (he's a dinosaur, dated, stubborn) that's built on a dislike for who he is and what that represents, rather than what he's actually doing.

We've no idea what goes on behind the scenes and how players perform in training, and yet people fill in the blanks with their own biases and assumptions and then explode in response to a story they've created. What I find frustrating is that when he then makes a decision some of the same people push for, that's somehow still something that is worthy of criticism.

Watching people ask him to start Dixon, to then criticise him for being inconsistent for starting Dixon but not O'brien, based on an assumption on why o'brien hasn't been used yet...is depressing.

Kerryblueboy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 12:27 pm Earn his place over a guy who has been an absolute liability here for the past few years and branthwaite only got in the team after Keane royally fucked up away at villa let’s not forget that either

Who cares. It was a year ago. We had a decent season. Don't you think it's a bit odd that it still provokes such feeling a year later. Let's hope everyone can be equally angry next year when we have 48 points and o brien is worth 70m

Yeah, it’s not just mild criticisms is it.

I think people on this forum can read over the last few weeks and see it’s probably gone beyond that.

The constant twisting of his comments in the press conferences for one.

Interesting someone on Toffee TV posted Dyche's first 5 games of the season for the last 8 seasons he has managed in the PL, he's won 4 games in those 40 games lol.