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Re: Financial Fairplay Investigation - Deducted 10 points
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:29 am
by blueToffee
Shogun wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:16 am
What were Southampton, Leeds and Leicester at that stage?
The lowest points team(s) after 12 games last season was Forest, Wolves and Leeds all on 9.
The lowest points teams at the halfway point were Southampton, Everton and West Ham on 15. Leicester and Leeds were on 17pts.
I think the biggest thing really as I edited my other post is staying in touch with those around us. So 10 pts might not be as bad if teams around us are also on 10 or so points too.
I still find the situation that we could be under 10 points or thereabouts by the halfway mark quite a sobering reality of the impact of this points deduction. It's going to take a massive response given those fixtures for us to match our halfway total from last season.
Re: Financial Fairplay Investigation - Deducted 10 points
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 6:20 am
by The Doc
I wonder how many teams can sue Man City. By logic they'd have x100 more lawsuits and a few of them from us.
Re: Financial Fairplay Investigation - Deducted 10 points
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:07 am
by Phillyt
blueToffee wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:10 am
Not helpful to add, but just vacillating between anger and sadness.
Looking at the league table from the half way point of last year, we were on 15pts at that stage, weirdly we were on 13pts after 12 games too (only a point less than we were before today). So we need 11 pts from the next 7 games to reach even that (not great) level considering how we scraped over the line. That's a tough ask.
The seven games in question are:
Man United (h)
Forest (a)
Newcastle (h)
Chelsea (h)
Burnley (a)
Tottenham (a)
Man City (h)
Not many easy games there, the last two are almost write offs. Those are some pretty difficult fixtures really. Hard to say with big confidence we're getting 11 pts from that lot, we'd have to go on an unbelievable run. The likelihood would remain under or around 10 by the halfway point would be pretty high. In which case the only way we survive is the teams around us are dropping a similar amount of points.
I would add, on balance looking through Burnley, Sheffield Utd and Luton's fixtures that they also have some of the bigger teams to play still. So really the bar is just trying to stay in touch with those 3 by the halfway point to start with.
I mentioned this above but another, more positive way of looking at this is that over the rest of the season we need to win just one more game than Burnley, Luton and sheff Utd. Can you really see that not happening? This is the baseline or worst case scenario. If we appeal it can only go one way.
Re: Financial Fairplay Investigation - Deducted 10 points
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:22 am
by 777Kidnappings
Phillyt wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:07 am
blueToffee wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:10 am
Not helpful to add, but just vacillating between anger and sadness.
Looking at the league table from the half way point of last year, we were on 15pts at that stage, weirdly we were on 13pts after 12 games too (only a point less than we were before today). So we need 11 pts from the next 7 games to reach even that (not great) level considering how we scraped over the line. That's a tough ask.
The seven games in question are:
Man United (h)
Forest (a)
Newcastle (h)
Chelsea (h)
Burnley (a)
Tottenham (a)
Man City (h)
Not many easy games there, the last two are almost write offs. Those are some pretty difficult fixtures really. Hard to say with big confidence we're getting 11 pts from that lot, we'd have to go on an unbelievable run. The likelihood would remain under or around 10 by the halfway point would be pretty high. In which case the only way we survive is the teams around us are dropping a similar amount of points.
I would add, on balance looking through Burnley, Sheffield Utd and Luton's fixtures that they also have some of the bigger teams to play still. So really the bar is just trying to stay in touch with those 3 by the halfway point to start with.
I mentioned this above but another, more positive way of looking at this is that over the rest of the season we need to win just one more game than Burnley, Luton and sheff Utd. Can you really see that not happening? This is the baseline or worst case scenario. If we appeal it can only go one way.
We should be okay but "can you really see that not happening" is overstating our chances a lot. We are currently have about a 30% chance of relegation. Looking at the games coming up we could quite easily be 5 or 6 points from safety in 6 games time.
Honestly I feel a bit done now. A bit sad. Very much like I've felt for the last 2 years plus. Its just never ending problems and relegation battles. It just feels like we never escape it even when it looked like this season we finally might. Was enjoying everton again. Not having to worry about us all the time. Not having to worry about everyone down the bottom losing every game just to give us a chance. Now back to thinking about it all the bloody time. How we will probably have to get something against utd not to be bottom. How we might have to win just to stay within a win of 4th bottom. We are gonna have to do it as fans but I really didn't want another season like this.. I loved everton being the distraction rather than the thing I needed distracting from
Re: Financial Fairplay Investigation - Deducted 10 points
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:43 am
by 74Blue
777Kidnappings wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:22 am
Phillyt wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:07 am
blueToffee wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:10 am
Not helpful to add, but just vacillating between anger and sadness.
Looking at the league table from the half way point of last year, we were on 15pts at that stage, weirdly we were on 13pts after 12 games too (only a point less than we were before today). So we need 11 pts from the next 7 games to reach even that (not great) level considering how we scraped over the line. That's a tough ask.
The seven games in question are:
Man United (h)
Forest (a)
Newcastle (h)
Chelsea (h)
Burnley (a)
Tottenham (a)
Man City (h)
Not many easy games there, the last two are almost write offs. Those are some pretty difficult fixtures really. Hard to say with big confidence we're getting 11 pts from that lot, we'd have to go on an unbelievable run. The likelihood would remain under or around 10 by the halfway point would be pretty high. In which case the only way we survive is the teams around us are dropping a similar amount of points.
I would add, on balance looking through Burnley, Sheffield Utd and Luton's fixtures that they also have some of the bigger teams to play still. So really the bar is just trying to stay in touch with those 3 by the halfway point to start with.
I mentioned this above but another, more positive way of looking at this is that over the rest of the season we need to win just one more game than Burnley, Luton and sheff Utd. Can you really see that not happening? This is the baseline or worst case scenario. If we appeal it can only go one way.
We should be okay but "can you really see that not happening" is overstating our chances a lot. We are currently have about a 30% chance of relegation. Looking at the games coming up we could quite easily be 5 or 6 points from safety in 6 games time.
Honestly I feel a bit done now. A bit sad. Very much like I've felt for the last 2 years plus. Its just never ending problems and relegation battles. It just feels like we never escape it even when it looked like this season we finally might. Was enjoying everton again. Not having to worry about us all the time. Not having to worry about everyone down the bottom losing every game just to give us a chance. Now back to thinking about it all the bloody time. How we will probably have to get something against utd not to be bottom. How we might have to win just to stay within a win of 4th bottom. We are gonna have to do it as fans but I really didn't want another season like this.. I loved everton being the distraction rather than the thing I needed distracting from
A little bit of positivity. The United team that we are facing next Sunday is far from unbeatable.
I was posed a question last week that I genuinely couldn't answer, "Name me 5 players from the current Utd aquad, that you would take right now to significantly improve your first team". Honestly, I was really struggling with that. I'm not saying that they have no decent players, more that they are not a particularly coherent unit as a team. In years gone by, you would probably have struggled to come up with 5 players that you wouldn't take. I don't think that Onana, for instance, has looked like an upgrade for De Gea. Fernandes is decemt, but not really a great. Casemiro was supposed to come in and completely revolutinise their midfield, but he's been more of a liability. Rashford is decent, but seems to be struggling at present. Harry Maguire? Varane? Even Luke Shaw has looked a little off the boil. They're currently persisting with Rasmus Hojlund up front, who is undoubtedly talented, but currently looks like he's drowning in the Premier League.
So, they are a team that we are CAPABLE of beating as long as we turn up, get stuck in and perform.
COYB!
Re: Financial Fairplay Investigation - Deducted 10 points
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:01 am
by wepull
Thinking about all this and wondering that we got this deduction for basically buying Ben Godfrey for 20 mill. Remove that purchase and we are in the green I believe or at least close to that. Ben fucking Godfrey.
Re: Financial Fairplay Investigation - Deducted 10 points
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:09 am
by Evertonfc15
having listened to all the responses from top sportswriters inc henry winter - the best of the lot of them
i get the feeling that the premier league who are under imminent danger of being ruled by an independent regulator
they are simply trying to show that that they cant be messed around with and are trying to display ultra efficiency in dealing with any financial breaches
the decision is way over the top and does not fit the situation of one repeat one ffp breach
on appeal this should be reduced accordingly by a fit and proper independent tribunal/commission AND a sensible desision reached
ps
LOOK who was on the decision making panel - the majority of people concerned were employees of the premier league ffs
thats surely grounds of appeal in itself
its like when there is a police complaint from a civilian and the complaint is heard by a panel made up guess what police offcicers
Re: Financial Fairplay Investigation - Deducted 10 points
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:13 am
by Juanito
Looking at the fixture list makes me more angry. I was up at 1:30 with my son and couldn’t get to sleep after that. If The Premier a league are so interested in integrity, how have the allowed the Newcastle sale under fit and proper Person.
How can the independent panel be premier league members and who would independently review this when we appeal?
Absolutely furious, Jeff
Re: Financial Fairplay Investigation - Deducted 10 points
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:53 am
by 777Kidnappings
wepull wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:01 am
Thinking about all this and wondering that we got this deduction for basically buying Ben Godfrey for 20 mill. Remove that purchase and we are in the green I believe or at least close to that. Ben fucking Godfrey.
20m plus wages. Not the right timeline but not much short of what we've been paying deli Ali each season not to play.
Also we'd have complied with ffp if we'd done what Chelsea did and put everyone on 8 years... the flip side of that is we'd still have tosan and sigurdsson here.
Re: Financial Fairplay Investigation - Deducted 10 points
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:54 am
by Brownie
I’m becoming slightly unnerved by the amount of Liverpool fans I know and have seen on social media saying they support us in this and that they don’t want us to go down. Never thought I’d see the day when I’d have text messages from them saying ‘I hope you don’t go down’
Re: Financial Fairplay Investigation - Deducted 10 points
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:04 am
by Evertonfc15
Brownie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:54 am
I’m becoming slightly unnerved by the amount of Liverpool fans I know and have seen on social media saying they support us in this and that they don’t want us to go down. Never thought I’d see the day when I’d have text messages from them saying ‘I hope you don’t go down’
and getting a lot of support from man city fans too
given the position their now in is great support - sympathy......
and
merseyside is always a 2 team city in the top flight and always will be
Re: Financial Fairplay Investigation - Deducted 10 points
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:35 am
by Cereal Killer
Juanito wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:13 am
Looking at the fixture list makes me more angry. I was up at 1:30 with my son and couldn’t get to sleep after that. If The Premier a league are so interested in integrity, how have the allowed the Newcastle sale under fit and proper Person.
How can the independent panel be premier league members and who would independently review this when we appeal?
Absolutely furious, Jeff
Don’t jump on that over reaction tweet, they’ve shot off on the wrong info without bothering to look at it
That wasn’t the panel
Re: Financial Fairplay Investigation - Deducted 10 points
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:40 am
by Brownie
Burnley, Leeds and Leicester confirm they are going to sue us for a combined £300m
Re: Financial Fairplay Investigation - Deducted 10 points
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:05 am
by Phillyt
Brownie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:40 am
Burnley, Leeds and Leicester confirm they are going to sue us for a combined £300m
Only Burnley will have any semblance of a case. The y were the ones who went down while we were in breach. The others weren’t affected. By the time it’s appealed and any legal challenges are done Burnley will be firmly ensconced in mid table of the championship. They won’t have the funds to pursue a complex legal case that is not a sure fire thing.
Re: Financial Fairplay Investigation - Deducted 10 points
Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:12 am
by Gash
Brownie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:40 am
Burnley, Leeds and Leicester confirm they are going to sue us for a combined £300m
On a dodgy Facebook page or have they actually confirmed it? I saw a post from about 21 hours ago "confirming" it but it was just clickbait nonsense and other than rumours there doesn't seem to be anything from the clubs themselves.