The NSNO Everton Forums

AjaxAndy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 7:13 pm The issue is VAR talking the ref through why he needs to make a decision... He's already going to the screen to view a studs up contact from the defender. If they just let him go over and see the whole incident without telling him what to look for I bet he'd be bemused about why he's re-watching the moment.

He's s not though, and it's been a problem in the Premier League too... 'ok we've seen contact from the defender with his studs, go to the screen and we'll show you a few frames in slow motion that highlight exactly what we're talking about'.

The ref isn't really an independent authority in these instances, he's purely looking at a screen to confirm that VAR are indeed seeing what they're saying they've seen.

Exactly Andy.
They shouldn't even be getting involved in it, never mind telling him what they think he missed.
They are re refereeing the game.
We were told at the start that they would only be getting involved for clear and obvious mistakes.
A guy who wrote a column in the sunday express done a superb piece just as var was about to be unfolded.
What he said was that despite what they were saying about clear and obvious mistakes they wouldn't be able to stop themselves getting involved in everything, he even predicted that in no time we would have lines drawn on the field and goals would be chalked off for fag paper offsides.
He also said than in months many of us would be begging for them to take it away.
As far as i'm concerned everything that man said has come true.
Years on and they are still making horrendous mistakes.
As you can probably tell by my ranting, i fucking despise it.

Stumpy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 6:27 pm That penalty was about as stonewall non penalty as you can get.
Gary Neville is right, it was an absolute disgrace it was given

Literally everyone outside of England and the Netherlands knows it was a penalty. The latter I fully understand, the former is fucking weird.

I don't think it was a penalty. You often see a defender slide in to block a shot, the forward get the shot off cleanly and then the defender slides into the forward taking him out. It's pretty much never given as a penalty.

AjaxAndy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 7:13 pm The issue is VAR talking the ref through why he needs to make a decision... He's already going to the screen to view a studs up contact from the defender. If they just let him go over and see the whole incident without telling him what to look for I bet he'd be bemused about why he's re-watching the moment.

He's s not though, and it's been a problem in the Premier League too... 'ok we've seen contact from the defender with his studs, go to the screen and we'll show you a few frames in slow motion that highlight exactly what we're talking about'.

The ref isn't really an independent authority in these instances, he's purely looking at a screen to confirm that VAR are indeed seeing what they're saying they've seen.

Agree with this, VAR should be telling the ref he might want to go and look at the monitor then shut the fuck up, let the ref look at the incident again, and make his own decision without any outside interference.

Shouldn't have been a penalty. It smacks more of refs/VAR not wanting to be seen to have missed something, yet the consequence of the change of decision is much worse. It's been universally condemned here.

Contact was initiated by Kane's follow through. Not sure what the defender's supposed to do?

Further cements the tactic that if you yell and roll around on the floor you'll get more calls, whether you deserve them or not.

biziclop wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 10:30 am I don't get why the entirety of English punditry claims the penalty wasn't really one.

Straight leg, studs up, blocking the shooting foot, it's as stonewall as it gets.

agree 100%
if you make contact with the opponent with your studs up in the box........the ref then has to make a decision

It isn’t a pen.

This thing happens all the time when you play footy.

He has a right to try and block the shot. He just puts his foot up, he doesn’t go in with any force.

TheRam wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 8:24 am It isn’t a pen.

This thing happens all the time when you play footy.

He has a right to try and block the shot. He just puts his foot up, he doesn’t go in with any force.

But then, players are entitled to make tackles and block passes all over the pitch but don't judge them right. Similarly, if you mistime a header. Anywhere else, this kind of thing is given as a foul.

Shogun wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:25 pm I don't think it was a penalty. You often see a defender slide in to block a shot, the forward get the shot off cleanly and then the defender slides into the forward taking him out. It's pretty much never given as a penalty.

Doesn't mean it's right, though, surely? I've never understood this. If you play a pass in the centre circle and the defender wipes you out 2 seconds later, it's a late challenge and probably a yellow card (at least). Just because you get the shot off shouldn't render anything else void.

Cods wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 5:38 am Shouldn't have been a penalty. It smacks more of refs/VAR not wanting to be seen to have missed something, yet the consequence of the change of decision is much worse. It's been universally condemned here.

Contact was initiated by Kane's follow through. Not sure what the defender's supposed to do?

Further cements the tactic that if you yell and roll around on the floor you'll get more calls, whether you deserve them or not.

What's Kane supposed to do, though? He was first to the ball and got his shot away. Is he entitled to think there won't be a player with his studs up a few inches behind the ball, but too late to block the shot? It's not like he stuck a leg out (like Vardy etc.) to initiate contact, he was taking a shot at goal.

If the defender had taken the ball and contact was made, then fair enough, no penalty. In fact, it'd be a free kick to the Netherlands. But Kane got there first, the defender was late - although obviously with no malicious intent - with his studs showing and so potentially dangerous contact was initiated.

Yeah I didn't think it was a pen initially, but I do now.

Dumfries even apologised for the mistake (giving the pen away) after the match and didn't dispute it at all.

It's a penalty if he contacts Kane with his studs.

He doesn't though, Kane kicks Dumfries' foot on his follow through... That's a huge difference.

Dumfries' foot doesn't even move towards Kane, he just puts it there to block the shot.

It's the same as when a player runs in to an opponent... They don't have to move out of the way (unless it's deliberate obstruction). Dumfries has every right to put his foot up to block a shot, he doesn't have to move it out of the way so Kane doesn't kick it.

It's an absolute farce of a decision, but given how it benefitted us as soon many others have gone against us in major tournaments I'm delighted it happened. If we get another dodgy penalty against Spain and win the thing then even better imo.

I don't think it's a farce at all, and loads of neutral people and even England-haters think it's a penalty

At most it's debatable, but not a farce.

I thought it was very harsh at first but looking back at it, I can see why it was given. Refs are trying to be consistent with studs up challenges to try and limit injuries etc. and I just saw this as one of those.

It's not a classic block with your leg, he moves towards Kane with his foot, studs up. It's the sort of challenge that's given as a free kick in other areas of the pitch.

Yeah it’s always got to be 100% disgrace or 100% a pen doesn’t it. I’m very 50/50 but I’ll take another one in the final all day long.

Bluedylan1 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:07 am Yeah I didn't think it was a pen initially, but I do now.

Dumfries even apologised for the mistake (giving the pen away) after the match and didn't dispute it at all.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one Bluedylan, because i can't for the life of me see how anyone can think that's a penalty
The only thing Dumfries has to apologise for is not getting to kane quick enough.
I don't know if it's my age(i'll be 63 soon) and i'm sick to death of the theatrics of today's players rolling around like they've been shot at the slightest touch, and kane is as bad as anyone at that, or my hatred of var, i really don't know
But if that's a penalty, the games gone

How many Spain players get in the current England team do you reckon?
Pickford
Walker Stones Guehi
Saka Rice Mainoo Trippier
Bellingham Foden
Kane .
Simon
Carvajal Le Normand Laporte Cucurella
Rodri Ruiz
Yamal Olmo Williams
Morata