The NSNO Everton Forums

TheRam wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2024 10:45 pm We have a decent amount of good enough footballers to play better stuff that what we’ve seen this season.

It doesn’t have to be anything drastic.

Just trying to control games using the ball instead of launching it long everytime then retreating to the halfway line when we lose it which is what we’ve seen most of this season.

You can play direct whilst still having an element of control in the game.

I know we have a midfield there than can use the ball well, they’re just not asked to do it and haven’t been for about four years.

I think we have a few but we also then would have half a team also not capable being asked to do so... You can't ever get away from the fact that half this team is absolute garbage, and the other half all distinctly flawed in one aspect or another.

No one's saying the Fulham game wasn't terrible, it was... It's more that if you zoom out and look at his time here he's done a great job. If we play like we did against Fulham next game I'll be pissed off too because it's horrible to watch, but we just came off a good performance against Ipswich and have taken 9 points from 5 games so I think the manager deserves some leeway here.

I think in certain matches he does hinder the team with his tactics for what it's worth, but I also think if we'd tried to go toe to toe with Fulham we'd have lost, and we didn't, even if it was fortunate that we got a point by and large we nullified their threat... and if you do that you're always in the game and a chance of a point.

I want to see much better play then that though and he needs to find a way of he wants to have even half a chance of convincing Friedkin of keeping him around.

The mental gymnastics some people are willing to do to justify something they've been defending for a long time never ceases to surprise.

Yeah it seems really really crazy to me.

You would think the squad is made up of random people who won a competition.

Of course our players can play progressive football if they are coached and organised properly to do so some on here think that our squad can only play dyche ball and I’d say a few prefer that brand of football to a more possession based system can’t wait for a new manager it’s painful watching us like on Saturday

Bluedylan1 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 8:30 am The mental gymnastics some people are willing to do to justify something they've been defending for a long time never ceases to surprise.

It's really not mental gymnastics. It's 48 points last season. That's the bottom line. That's what justifies watching shite football a lot of the time

Audrey Horne wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 10:04 am Yeah it seems really really crazy to me.

You would think the squad is made up of random people who won a competition.

Tarks
Mykolenko
Young
Doucoure
Harrison

That's 50% of our starting lineup that can't play a passing game... Add in that Ndaiye is great at running with the ball but not much of a passer and McNeil being so one footed you only have to keep him on his right to nullify him and I don't think it's a stretch say that the players are so limited it limits the way you can feasibly play with them.

Despite the fact it's apparently so unbelievably bad he's kept us up 2 seasons in a row and just got us our 9th point in 5 games.

I didn't enjoy Fulham at all, not the games at the start of the season... But I also wouldn't enjoy watching someone try and play some sort of expansive passing game with a back line of Young-Tarks-Keane-Mykolenko. We were set up to protect a back line that has no pace against an attack that had plenty... Push the full backs and midfield up and the moment you lose it they're in behind and you're fucked.

But these managers have a cycle, Moyes at West Ham, Nuno will be chased out of Forest in a couple of years... People want to be entertained which is completely understandable, but the reality of our situation is that we still have a shit team with extremely limited players, and for whatever reason people don't want to accept that.

I would swerve Thomas Frank personally.

Done a good job at Brentford, but would much sooner see Carsley or Potter given the chance to build something sustainable.

We need to get away from this horrible notion that all Everton fans care about is hard work and sweat on the shirt that low expectation managers like Dyche and Allardyce propagate to take pressure off their very basic ideas.

We've already got that kind of thinking in mainstream politics that ''everything is shit, so it's stupid to hope for anything better'' from certain demagogues. I don't need it with my football club also. It's reductive nonsense.

Bluedylan1 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 10:15 am I would swerve Thomas Frank personally.

Done a good job at Brentford, but would much sooner see Carsley or Potter given the chance to build something sustainable.

We need to get away from this horrible notion that all Everton fans care about is hard work and sweat on the shirt that low expectation managers like Dyche and Allardyce propagate to take pressure off their very basic ideas.

We've already got that kind of thinking in mainstream politics that ''everything is shit, so it's stupid to hope for anything better'' from certain demagogues. I don't need it with my football club also. It's reductive nonsense.

I wouldn't touch Carsley with our summer situation personally, may well go on to be a top manager but we need someone with plenty of experience to navigate the large squad turnover.

Carsley for me is someone you bring in to a more stable situation where you're looking to kick on than when you're going through a substantial rebuild.

AjaxAndy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 10:21 am I wouldn't touch Carsley with our summer situation personally, may well go on to be a top manager but we need someone with plenty of experience to navigate the large squad turnover.

Carsley for me is someone you bring in to a more stable situation where you're looking to kick on than when you're going through a substantial rebuild.

Can't agree. I actually look at the rebuild as an opportunity more than a negative. Chance for a new gaffer to recruit his own players to do what he needs for his system, rather than being stuck with a mishmash of different kinds of players.

People often say ''this squad is terrible'', ''all the players are rubbish/limited'' and then at the same time bemoan than a number of them will be leaving. We can't have it both ways.

Carsley's a very talented younger manager, with an excellent rep. He's more experienced than Arteta when he got the Arsenal gig, as an actual manager, for example. Doesn't have to be him but we shouldn't let one dodgy England performance detract from his obvious credentials.

Bluedylan1 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 10:34 am Can't agree. I actually look at the rebuild as an opportunity more than a negative. Chance for a new gaffer to recruit his own players to do what he needs for his system, rather than being stuck with a mishmash of different kinds of players.

People often say ''this squad is terrible'', ''all the players are rubbish/limited'' and then at the same time bemoan than a number of them will be leaving. We can't have it both ways.

Carsley's a very talented younger manager, with an excellent rep. He's more experienced than Arteta when he got the Arsenal gig, as an actual manager, for example. Doesn't have to be him but we shouldn't let one dodgy England performance detract from his obvious credentials.

You'd be asking him to do something he's never done before though, and he has a very defined way of playing... Club football isn't something everyone can adapt to and neither is squad building.

It'd be an enormous risk, with yes potentially a lot of upside, but it'd be a gamble with every chance of it going wrong.

I'm not bemoaning the number of players leaving, I'm going to be delighted to see the back of most of them... but it's a mammoth task to get the recruitment right whilst creating some sort of cohesion with those remaining, which is why I'd have Potter over Carsley. He's far more experienced whilst bringing in a lot of the positives of good football and modern tactical thinking.

No point imo taking a massive gamble on someone like a Carsley only to then potentially be looking for a fire fighter come January because it's all gone wrong.

AjaxAndy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 10:15 am Tarks
Mykolenko
Young
Doucoure
Harrison

That's 50% of our starting lineup that can't play a passing game... Add in that Ndaiye is great at running with the ball but not much of a passer and McNeil being so one footed you only have to keep him on his right to nullify him and I don't think it's a stretch say that the players are so limited it limits the way you can feasibly play with them.

Despite the fact it's apparently so unbelievably bad he's kept us up 2 seasons in a row and just got us our 9th point in 5 games.

I didn't enjoy Fulham at all, not the games at the start of the season... But I also wouldn't enjoy watching someone try and play some sort of expansive passing game with a back line of Young-Tarks-Keane-Mykolenko. We were set up to protect a back line that has no pace against an attack that had plenty... Push the full backs and midfield up and the moment you lose it they're in behind and you're fucked.

But these managers have a cycle, Moyes at West Ham, Nuno will be chased out of Forest in a couple of years... People want to be entertained which is completely understandable, but the reality of our situation is that we still have a shit team with extremely limited players, and for whatever reason people don't want to accept that.

If they cant pass the ball then they wouldnt be professional footballers playing at a top level.

The players are not 'so limited' that Dyche has to play a particular way with them.

Honestly cant believe some of the stuff being said.

I can appreciate that Dyche has done a good job in keeping us up when it looked hopeless. But I also cant understand why you are making out these players are so bad. Its just not correct.

It's kind of funny that people thought tarkowski, McNeil, Mykolenko, Doucoure were incredibly limited when dyche turned up. They thought DCL was finished... now though after vast improvement under dyche these players aren't limited at all. Well only by dyche


It's the same awful squad he turned up to give or take. Suddenly they are capable of great things

They’re capable of using the ball better and giving us more control in games.

We have a squad of players that is capable of producing better than what we’ve seen this season.

It’s silly to suggest otherwise.

AjaxAndy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 10:54 am You'd be asking him to do something he's never done before though, and he has a very defined way of playing... Club football isn't something everyone can adapt to and neither is squad building.

It'd be an enormous risk, with yes potentially a lot of upside, but it'd be a gamble with every chance of it going wrong.

I'm not bemoaning the number of players leaving, I'm going to be delighted to see the back of most of them... but it's a mammoth task to get the recruitment right whilst creating some sort of cohesion with those remaining, which is why I'd have Potter over Carsley. He's far more experienced whilst bringing in a lot of the positives of good football and modern tactical thinking.

No point imo taking a massive gamble on someone like a Carsley only to then potentially be looking for a fire fighter come January because it's all gone wrong.

Yeah I just think that's a very fearful (kinda understandably) mindset.

I don't think it is a massive gamble. Let's take a worst case scenario. The bare minimum expected for any new manager is that we stay clear of relegation. That isn't that hard. We've been mostly awful this season and we're 5 points above 18th, with more than double the points of that club. Even with all our deductions, financial issues and not winning a game for 4 months, we were miles above relegation last season. It's an incredibly low bar to be safe, in the current football climate with the chasm between the Championship and the Prem.

So the chances of a short term worst case scenario relegation with Carsley or Potter or anyone else are incredibly low. We need to get away from this fear-driven mindset. I understand why it's there, but ultimately it restricts us and hurts us.

Of course we still need to be rational and calm, but there's absolutely no reason why a very talented young manager like Carsley, with a knowledge of the current game, a knowledge of the English game and a knowledge of Everton couldn't be allowed to slowly build a team that can compete around mid-table initially, with room to grow and expand.

In terms of recruitment and squad building, well that's mostly Thelwell's brief in conjunction with a manager. There's no way Sean Dyche was hunting Iliman Ndiaye, for example. I would say it's incredibly likely that Carsley (and others) actually have a broader knowledge of players than Sean Dyche.

I'd be really happy with Potter too, but I'd love to see us try too build something with Carsley or someone of his ilk.

Think it's wild people suggesting we almost can't be relegated. We have a 20% chance this season despite already being a few points clear. Next season when we are down to 13 players and with a new manager we'll be lucky if we don't start the season with a similar chance. People aren't in the real world suggesting we aren't still fighting for survival