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Cods wrote: ↑Mon Apr 28, 2025 6:55 pm Don't think we need leadership on the pitch?

There was talk when we were after Tarkowski that had the same sort of tone, and while having limitations it's been obvious how good he's been for us, when he's out, but moreso remembering how loose and rudderless we were before he came.

This even with the young talent we have in that position.

Tarkowski and Coleman are getting on, and Pickford and Gana aren't leaders. We need someone that can keep us together on the pitch, and Moyes buys character as much as ability.

Not my ideal but I can see it possibly happening, especially if things at West Ham aren't rosy.

Leadership is a nebulous characteristic that it's hard to define or identify externally, so it's hard to say. It wouldn't be my first search criteria, put it that way.

But no, I don't think we need a 30 year old lump midfielder, who's good in the air but distinctly average on the deck. In fact I think that's the opposite of what we need.

Even if he would bring some positives I don't think paying a transfer fee (circa £20m) + high wages of probably £100k is something we should even be giving half a glance.

If it was a free transfer then it might be similar to the Tarks transfer in terms of bringing in experience and leadership, but as it is then there's pretty much nothing that'd make this a good move.

Surely it's about discovering the next up and coming Souceck?

Think he'd do well here. Hes a decent player. We aren't really in a position to be spending 20m and 100k on someone with zero sell on value though

I’d be devastated if we buy Soucek. Free transfer on circa 60k then it’s not too bad but that’s not happening. It’s definitely lazy journalism though. Plays like Fellaini so Moyes has to have a player like that blah blah blah

Bluedylan1 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 28, 2025 7:18 pm

Leadership is a nebulous characteristic that it's hard to define or identify externally, so it's hard to say. It wouldn't be my first search criteria, put it that way.

But no, I don't think we need a 30 year old lump midfielder, who's good in the air but distinctly average on the deck. In fact I think that's the opposite of what we need.

We certainly need added creativity and the ability to play football in the middle.

But I think Moyes will again look to build a team where most signings will also be mentally strong, adaptable and smart. I think that's one way he adds synergy to his teams.

Leadership might be nebulous in the way that we can't put a number on it like we can for 'completed passes', but as you know, work around personality types, the psychology of player chemistry and leadership groups etc are pretty common in football these days. Getting a good blend of mentally as well as technically/physically strong players.

I think we have been very poor in signing players with leadership qualities since Moyes was last here. It wasn't only his defensive organisation which was exceptional, it was his ability to sign driven and versatile players, Neville-aside.

Players like Iwobi, Gray, Keane, Gomes, Kean, Mykolenko, McNeil, Harrison, Lindstrom ... Nice guys no doubt... But compare them to the likes of Cahill, Arteta, Lescott, Howard, Jagielka, Neill, Gravesen, Gibson, we wouldn't have seen such fragility under Frank, benitez and Dyche, had we had a sprinkle of these.

Soucek is on course for 10 goals from midfield, and he's a player who can slot in anywhere along the spine, and he's often in the right place to receive the ball; all this would be helpful. He might be a good squad transition player, especially if Gana wants to leave, and may not cost what has been suggested if he wants out.

Cozzie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 28, 2025 8:09 pm Surely it's about discovering the next up and coming Souceck?

That's the ideal too, but players that are influential as well as being able to improve the first team now are still likely 25yo+ and circa 50m+. And would we be able to attract that sort of player? Perhaps a bit more likely than 4 months ago... and if/once the spending starts, moreso.

We might attract a 19-20yo for 20m with those traits, who wants the step up, hopefully we're working on these well ahead of time, but would they immediately improve us.

If Soucek is more than just paper talk, and was less than the supposed 20m I think he'd be ok as that transitional player we could get two solid seasons from, as we have with Tarkowski.

Two pages of discussing Soucek has made me feel ill.

I am not ready for the good Moyes vibes to over this quickly.

Think we have an incredibly snobby fanbase. Someone above said he's on for 10 goals this season. Our entire midfield is currently on 16. His age isn't ideal but he's miles better than what we have

777Kidnappings wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 6:42 am Think we have an incredibly snobby fanbase. Someone above said he's on for 10 goals this season. Our entire midfield is currently on 16. His age isn't ideal but he's miles better than what we have

He's the exact kind of player you'll be calling vile shite and calculating his appearance bonuses and how much chicken he's eaten in the canteen to justify your argument as to why it was a horrible singing devoid of any value in exactly 18 months time.

Can't believe people watch us and think the answer is Soucek.

Footballers everyone. We need footballers. People with the ability to kick a ball.

Big strong lumps who are only at this level because of their physicality need to be left behind.

777Kidnappings wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 6:42 am Think we have an incredibly snobby fanbase. Someone above said he's on for 10 goals this season. Our entire midfield is currently on 16. His age isn't ideal but he's miles better than what we have

Miles better than what we have doesn't hide the fact that he's the wrong side of 30 and West Ham are going to want around 20m for him. Considering the number of players we have out of contract this summer, do we have that sort of cash to chuck at Tomas Soucek.

Same guys saying no to soucek are the same ones that said mctominay would have been bad business last summer see how that worked out

We’re talking at cross purposes here I think. Some are saying he would do ok here, maybe even be an upgrade on Doucoure. Those saying they don’t want Soucek are not saying he wouldn’t be - they’re saying there is an opportunity here to do a rebuild and that we should be looking at younger and cheaper (because we need a lot of bodies) and if at all possible - better would be nice too.


The debate isn’t is Soucek good enough, the debate is whether this is how we should approach the rebuild or not.

superpull wrote: ↑Tue Apr 29, 2025 6:51 am He's the exact kind of player you'll be calling vile shite and calculating his appearance bonuses and how much chicken he's eaten in the canteen to justify your argument as to why it was a horrible singing devoid of any value in exactly 18 months time.

If he scores 10 goals and costs less than 20m he'll bear no comparison to the vile shite that came before him