The NSNO Everton Forums

Fucking hell, imagine how it would've been in here if we'd lost to Tottenham and Brighton!

Escalator wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 6:16 pm I wonder if Moyes tends to like a player because they give their all in training and perform well on match days ? Might be the reason he finds a place for them in the team ?

You may have missed my point, which was simply that Moyes is a player-first manager (with all the good and bad that comes with it) and not a system-first manager (which also has its advantages and disadvantages).

And that Jake is now thankfully benefitting from this approach.

TheRam wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 1:54 pm
Micheal Keane very good at the start of the season. I mean, come on. Come the fuck on.

The Echo published their first half of 24/25 season average player ratings.

Of those who had played at least half of those games, he was only behind N'Diaye Pickford Brathwaite McNeil and Mangala.

Keane had a few stinkers, but still averaged 6.45 / 10

Which to some might suggest he was largely at 6s and 7s.

At his very best, which he has been at for us many times, he is still a poor player who is long past his peak.

Playing well and being good are different to things. He might not be tripping over his own feet every game but he still anchors your back line another 10 yards.

If I had the best game of my life up front I'd make Beto look like berbatov.

Cods wrote: ↑Tue Jan 28, 2025 11:31 pm The Echo published their first half of 24/25 season average player ratings.

Of those who had played at least half of those games, he was only behind N'Diaye Pickford Brathwaite McNeil and Mangala.

Keane had a few stinkers, but still averaged 6.45 / 10

Which to some might suggest he was largely at 6s and 7s.

Wouldn’t say any of those players were particularly great so for him to be behind them in the world renowned echo ratings proves he wasn’t that good.

brap2 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 9:07 am At his very best, which he has been at for us many times, he is still a poor player who is long past his peak.

Playing well and being good are different to things. He might not be tripping over his own feet every game but he still anchors your back line another 10 yards.

If I had the best game of my life up front I'd make Beto look like berbatov.

Really important point that a lot of people forget.

brap2 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2025 9:07 am At his very best, which he has been at for us many times, he is still a poor player who is long past his peak.

Playing well and being good are different to things. He might not be tripping over his own feet every game but he still anchors your back line another 10 yards.

If I had the best game of my life up front I'd make Beto look like berbatov.

So does Tarks though, and Keane was playing better than him at that point in the season. We're able to avoid that now because Jared can cover that space in a way neither of those two can.

You have to compare him to the players he was on the pitch with at the time, not well...yourself? I guess people just judge it differently, I think comparing his individual performance (he can't stop every goal even if he were to transform into the worlds best defender) to the people he's playing alongside and against in those performances makes sense.

UnsyisaRhino wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 1:19 pm So does Tarks though, and Keane was playing better than him at that point in the season. We're able to avoid that now because Jared can cover that space in a way neither of those two can.

You have to compare him to the players he was on the pitch with at the time, not well...yourself? I guess people just judge it differently, I think comparing his individual performance (he can't stop every goal even if he were to transform into the worlds best defender) to the people he's playing alongside and against in those performances makes sense.

Missed the point entirely.

Tark is a better, or at least more consistent, box defender than Keane. Calmer. Better organiser.

Jarrad as you say covers space and is different on the ball to the two of them.

So why did we drop Keane despite him playing well (for him?) because of the glaring deficiencies you have helped me point out above.

At his best he's not good enough, so he's dropped as soon as necessary despite doing well for his own limited capacity.

Comparison to myself purely for exaggerated illustration and levity.

brap2 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2025 1:50 pm Missed the point entirely.

Tark is a better, or at least more consistent, box defender than Keane. Calmer. Better organiser.

Jarrad as you say covers space and is different on the ball to the two of them.

So why did we drop Keane despite him playing well (for him?) because of the glaring deficiencies you have helped me point out above.

At his best he's not good enough, so he's dropped as soon as necessary despite doing well for his own limited capacity.

Comparison to myself purely for exaggerated illustration and levity.

We might be missing each other then. I agree with your first point in general, if I had to pick one forever, I'd pick Tarks. But that wasn't true of Tarks during that period, he was miles off his usual defensively solid performances and started making mistakes, he also looked injured.

It could be that, for sure, it could also be down to one of the things we all disliked Dyche for, sticking with certain players regardless of performance. As much as Keane was 'one of his guys' he was always going to pick Tarks over him, and didn't have a choice but to include Jared once fit.

I think I've lost my sense of humour recently, my bad!

Defenses, especially central defenders play (or should play) very much as a unit anyway, so analysing personal performances without considering who else is in that back line isn't a very fruitful activity.

Not sure why I’m extending this - boredom? - but my point earlier was that although he had a good spell where he played pretty well for a few games, Keane still made costly errors.

So, for me, although he played well for 89 minutes, which he did, that one minute where he hurt us is enough to drop him because it’s a regular occurrence.

So I’m not denying he played well in some games, I am just saying that he also had bad moments in those games too and they were costing us.

Looks like a solid pro. Give him a job to do and he’ll get it done type of pro.

Great today so calm in possession

I don’t think he put a foot wrong today. Just a proper professional, happy to be in the first team and do a job.

Super impressed with him and big credit to Moyes for putting him in. Think he is a big reason why we have done so well in the last 3 games.

He’s quick and decent on the ball, and obviously strong and imposing