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I feel like having two strikers who are incapable of basic hold up play is gaslighting us in to thinking playing direct balls is some archaic unworkable style of football.

You look at Palace and they're the most direct team in the league by a mile, the number of passes they take per chance creation is miles lower than any other team in the division... The difference is they have a striker who has decent hold up play.

It's not like we need Mateta to make that work, just any striker with basic and I mean just average hold up play would mean we retained the ball infinitely more than we do currently. There's just no excuse for being so poor at such a basic part of being a striker, especially when you're playing at this level.

I forgive Barry somewhat because of his age, but watching Waltermade drop deep, contest balls, hold off defenders and wriggle out of tight spots when he's only just arrived in the league is a stark contrast. Yes he cost 3x the price so I'm not saying Barry should be the same level, but he doesn't even have a basic concept of winning or even contesting a physical duel.

I'm happy to give Barry a year to 18 months to develop, but someone really needs to work with him intensely over that period and teach him the basics or he'll be another cast off that ends up in a less physical league looking like we dropped a bollock, when in fact he just never had the attributes to play at this level.

I hear Leeds have a striker who’s good at hold up play, and missing big chances.

He’d be perfect for us I reckon.

sam of the south wrote: ↑Tue Oct 07, 2025 3:52 pm I hear Leeds have a striker who’s good at hold up play, and missing big chances.

He’d be perfect for us I reckon.

He was thru on goal in his last game and, very uncharacteristically, shot straight at the keeper, who saved it.

Scored the same amount as Beto this season and one more than Barry, and holds up the ball infinitely better than either.

Think DCL walks in to this team tbh

AjaxAndy wrote:I feel like having two strikers who are incapable of basic hold up play is gaslighting us in to thinking playing direct balls is some archaic unworkable style of football.

You look at Palace and they're the most direct team in the league by a mile, the number of passes they take per chance creation is miles lower than any other team in the division... The difference is they have a striker who has decent hold up play.

It's not like we need Mateta to make that work, just any striker with basic and I mean just average hold up play would mean we retained the ball infinitely more than we do currently. There's just no excuse for being so poor at such a basic part of being a striker, especially when you're playing at this level.

I forgive Barry somewhat because of his age, but watching Waltermade drop deep, contest balls, hold off defenders and wriggle out of tight spots when he's only just arrived in the league is a stark contrast. Yes he cost 3x the price so I'm not saying Barry should be the same level, but he doesn't even have a basic concept of winning or even contesting a physical duel.

I'm happy to give Barry a year to 18 months to develop, but someone really needs to work with him intensely over that period and teach him the basics or he'll be another cast off that ends up in a less physical league looking like we dropped a bollock, when in fact he just never had the attributes to play at this level.

Both Palace and Newcastle have wingers who run beyond, which means that opposition defences can’t squeeze Mateta/Woltemede with multiple players like we let happen to Barry/Beto.

Palace CBs were skin tight on both even into our half as they know we have no threat in behind

StirlingBlue wrote: ↑Tue Oct 07, 2025 5:28 pm Both Palace and Newcastle have wingers who run beyond, which means that opposition defences can’t squeeze Mateta/Woltemede with multiple players like we let happen to Barry/Beto.

Palace CBs were skin tight on both even into our half as they know we have no threat in behind

Sure but pacey wingers wouldn't mean either would suddenly have adequate hold up play.

A lack of pace is an issue too, but it doesn't excuse either's lack of skill in that department.

AjaxAndy wrote: Sure but pacey wingers wouldn't mean either would suddenly have adequate hold up play.

A lack of pace is an issue too, but it doesn't excuse either's lack of skill in that department.

Hold up play is a lot easier when you’re under less pressure is my point.

The pass quality and opposition defence position that Beto/Barry are asked to hold the ball up compared to what Mateta and Woltemede are asked to do is vastly different.

I stand by my statement that Mateta doesn’t look any good in our set up

If Ndiaye and Grealish are both ball magnets, and they are, why don’t we get more balls into them to hold up?

StirlingBlue wrote: ↑Wed Oct 08, 2025 1:41 pm Hold up play is a lot easier when you’re under less pressure is my point.

The pass quality and opposition defence position that Beto/Barry are asked to hold the ball up compared to what Mateta and Woltemede are asked to do is vastly different.

I stand by my statement that Mateta doesn’t look any good in our set up

I think you're probably underselling Mateta a little bit, but you're right. We don't have any real pace so teams can press really high, and we don't move the ball quickly enough or into the strikers at the right time.

Watch how many runs Barry makes because he's expecting us to move it quicker.

Funny to see how many palace fans were bemoaning Matetas finishing at the weekend tbf 'if we had a finisher...'

Football fans answer to everything is a new striker.

AjaxAndy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 07, 2025 5:24 pm Scored the same amount as Beto this season and one more than Barry, and holds up the ball infinitely better than either.

Think DCL walks in to this team tbh

I don't disagree with you Andy, DCL was clearly miles better than Beto or Barry. If he hadn't been injured so much, and his wages were more reasonable I would have been a lot more annoyed at his leaving than I was.

He had all the ingredients to be a far better play than he is, or thinks he is.

Thing with Barry is we can see he’s a better technical player than Beto…Beto been with us a while now…still hasn’t learned to trap a ball, take the ball in under control, lay it off to one of our players consistently…..all things we’ve already seen Barry do….
For me it’s the simple case of coming to a bigger club in a strange and stronger league….a big step up basically that he’s learning…
How difficult is it to do….look at dibbling…he’s in the same boat as Barry for me….bigger club and higher level than soton…the expectancy on both is…considering where they’ve come from is very high for young players….
I think moyes is proceeding with em correctly at the minute…..give the game time…but more importantly give them time…