The NSNO Everton Forums

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/footb ... a-31565854

Absolutely fucking scandalous that, by that time they will have reformed the rules to ensure they get away with it.

Fuck off, 2025.

AjaxAndy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:13 pm

Goaljira wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:22 pm This is what I was concerned about. If we've made the same assumptions of allowances for 2 of the 3 years, then unless last years is significantly better than the one being written off then we'll get hit again.

Yeah I think unless wrong it's:

2020-2022 accounts - over the limit

Then they look at 2021-2023 next... But as that overlaps the previous range of accounting years they have used it's a crazy system as if you go over once there's a strong chance you'll be punished multiple times.

That really needs looking at as you're essentially going to be punished more than once for what really is the same crime.

Really if you've gone over and spent badly it will send clubs into a death spiral. Like you say could be punished year on year for the same offence but even beyond that the interest on loans and wages you can't shift could see you go over for years and years. Rather than protect clubs as they claim the punishments could finish them off. There's actually zero protection from overspending. Just massive punishments for getting it wrong

777Kidnappings wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:27 pm

AjaxAndy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:13 pm

Goaljira wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:22 pm This is what I was concerned about. If we've made the same assumptions of allowances for 2 of the 3 years, then unless last years is significantly better than the one being written off then we'll get hit again.

Yeah I think unless wrong it's:

2020-2022 accounts - over the limit

Then they look at 2021-2023 next... But as that overlaps the previous range of accounting years they have used it's a crazy system as if you go over once there's a strong chance you'll be punished multiple times.

That really needs looking at as you're essentially going to be punished more than once for what really is the same crime.

Really if you've gone over and spent badly it will send clubs into a death spiral. Like you say could be punished year on year for the same offence but even beyond that the interest on loans and wages you can't shift could see you go over for years and years. Rather than protect clubs as they claim the punishments could finish them off. There's actually zero protection from overspending. Just massive punishments for getting it wrong

Yeah, I mean just as an example... If you made a £300m loss for instance in 2020, you get a points deduction (unless you made £195m profit in the other seasons) for:

2018 - 2020
2019 - 2021
2020 - 2022

So for one offence you'd get 3x punishments... It's an absolutely bizarre system.

AjaxAndy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:45 pm

777Kidnappings wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:27 pm

AjaxAndy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:13 pm

Yeah I think unless wrong it's:

2020-2022 accounts - over the limit

Then they look at 2021-2023 next... But as that overlaps the previous range of accounting years they have used it's a crazy system as if you go over once there's a strong chance you'll be punished multiple times.

That really needs looking at as you're essentially going to be punished more than once for what really is the same crime.

Really if you've gone over and spent badly it will send clubs into a death spiral. Like you say could be punished year on year for the same offence but even beyond that the interest on loans and wages you can't shift could see you go over for years and years. Rather than protect clubs as they claim the punishments could finish them off. There's actually zero protection from overspending. Just massive punishments for getting it wrong

Yeah, I mean just as an example... If you made a £300m loss for instance in 2020, you get a points deduction (unless you made £195m profit in the other seasons) for:

2018 - 2020
2019 - 2021
2020 - 2022

So for one offence you'd get 3x punishments... It's an absolutely bizarre system.

That should make it defensible, surely?

Toddacelli wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:05 pm

AjaxAndy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:45 pm

777Kidnappings wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:27 pm

Really if you've gone over and spent badly it will send clubs into a death spiral. Like you say could be punished year on year for the same offence but even beyond that the interest on loans and wages you can't shift could see you go over for years and years. Rather than protect clubs as they claim the punishments could finish them off. There's actually zero protection from overspending. Just massive punishments for getting it wrong

Yeah, I mean just as an example... If you made a £300m loss for instance in 2020, you get a points deduction (unless you made £195m profit in the other seasons) for:

2018 - 2020
2019 - 2021
2020 - 2022

So for one offence you'd get 3x punishments... It's an absolutely bizarre system.

That should make it defensible, surely?

Probably for other clubs, it feels very much like the premier league are chomping at the bit to destroy us at any opportunity... I've read they've brought in rules that mean if we are found guilty the charge and punishment will be applied this season.

I have no doubt they'd try and punish as many times as they could this season.

That said, it would be insane to punish us twice for what is essentially the same offence because of the rolling period. Easy to be hyperbolic in these situations but that might tip me over into being done with football if that actually happened. The point of Financial stability rules should not be to send a club into a tail spin of financial woes that would be extremely hard to recover from.

Hoping the story is just click bait, but it's hard not to assume any bad news story about us right now as more often than not they turn out to be true.

blueToffee wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 1:31 am I have no doubt they'd try and punish as many times as they could this season.

That said, it would be insane to punish us twice for what is essentially the same offence because of the rolling period. Easy to be hyperbolic in these situations but that might tip me over into being done with football if that actually happened. The point of Financial stability rules should not be to send a club into a tail spin of financial woes that would be extremely hard to recover from.

Hoping the story is just click bait, but it's hard not to assume any bad news story about us right now as more often than not they turn out to be true.

Feels like the script is already written... We get done multiple times to ensure we go down (and face financial oblivion). Then a new ruling comes in soon after to stop that multiple punishments being applied to a rolling period... No one else gets screwed, just us.

You think that the threat of a second punishment may be engineered to try to hush the club up and stifle any appeal. Take your ten point deduction and crack on or else we'll find another rule breach to shaft you for. You can just see us appealing, getting a small reduction in the deduction from 10 points to maybe six, only for the PL to impose another six for another breach, taking us to the 12 points that they were originally pishing for.

My head has fell off over us potentially getting another deduction this season.

Would definitely send us down and it wouldn't be long before we fell foul of the EFL rules which are even harsher.

Rather just go fucking bust and be put out of my misery.

I can't tell how realistic any chance of further punishment is, or whether it's a clickbaity pile-on from journalists who would like to see Everton burn.

https://twitter.com/Everton/status/1730564967290556712

Bluedylan1 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:50 am I can't tell how realistic any chance of further punishment is, or whether it's a clickbaity pile-on from journalists who would like to see Everton burn.

Yeah, that’s where I am too.

You’d also think any second punishment would also be subject to appeal so not sure how that’d work.

If you squint hard enough to give the PL extremely kind and generous latitude, there is some degree of understanding about their motivations so far. If they effectively punish us for the same infraction due to a rolling period shifting one year down the line…it’d be scandalous.

I wouldn’t trust a governing body that’s appearing to make up the rules as it goes along in order to save face, to not go to extreme lengths to protect themselves. So until proven otherwise it’s best to assume it could be a real threat.

Hopefully this panel doesn't have a Leeds United solicitor on it.

blueToffee wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 1:23 pm

Bluedylan1 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:50 am I can't tell how realistic any chance of further punishment is, or whether it's a clickbaity pile-on from journalists who would like to see Everton burn.

Yeah, that’s where I am too.

You’d also think any second punishment would also be subject to appeal so not sure how that’d work.

If you squint hard enough to give the PL extremely kind and generous latitude, there is some degree of understanding about their motivations so far. If they effectively punish us for the same infraction due to a rolling period shifting one year down the line…it’d be scandalous.

I wouldn’t trust a governing body that’s appearing to make up the rules as it goes along in order to save face, to not go to extreme lengths to protect themselves. So until proven otherwise it’s best to assume it could be a real threat.

I also don't think it's too conspiratorial to suggest that there is some journalistic (in the loosest sense of the word) glee from certain quarters about our punishment and our general malaise that goes beyond a commitment to fair sporting values and a desire for justice, so it becomes really difficult to discern what is likely/possible.

I think we're all still reeling from the 10 points in one way or another, whether you partially agree with it or not. I don't btw.

Also, more generally it's another alienating aspect of modern football. You end up having to become an armchair semi-expert in business law and finance to be able to have a remotely relevant opinion on what is happening to your club.

When the six clubs tried to form the super league and end the football pyramid forever, and loss of points or demotion was being mooted, we were endlessly told ''you can't punish the fans for the indiscretions of owners''. Clearly that same logic doesn't appear to apply in this instance, and many, many people, including supposedly reputable journalists would love to watch us languish in League 1 for 10 years. Not because everyone particularly hates Everton, but because it's highly tribal and sometimes people like seeing something burn, as long as it doesn't impact them.

The ten point thing has knocked me tbh. Felt quite low energy about the whole thing since it happened.