The NSNO Everton Forums

Has Dyche still done a good job come the end of the season if we're 16th or lower even if you add back any deducted points?

There's a good chance after the weekend that we'd only be 14th on goal difference without the 6 points deducted.

No creativity partly comes because we don't have any creative players, unless we're pinning our hopes on Andre Gomes finally adapting to the Premier League. There's never much depth on the bench to change things either but after a decent run of four wins we've then had injuries and Gana going to the African Nations leaving us even barer. I agree that he's got his blind spots for certain players and deserves some of the criticism he gets but it's not a great hand he's been dealt with this season. I'm just not sure what kind of football people are expecting us to play with the players he's got while also not getting pumped every week?

I think for me, just something resembling modern football would be good. Doesn't have to be short passing. Not asking for 1970s Brazil or any other extreme that gets cited in these discussions.

I actually didn't mind some of the stuff at the start of the season. It was still quite agricultural but it was clear what we were trying to do, and it was mostly effective in creating lots of dangerous positions and limiting opposition chances. Since Xmas it's looked like a bad variation of Allardyce/Benitez/Pulis.

I saw somewhere that Dyche's teams historically fall apart in the 2nd half of a season, and have a much lower points return. I worry that is because the very basic messages to the players eventually become deeply uninspiring and tired. I also think his refusal to use subs and to rotate doesn't help. I know we don't have 20 odd wonderful players, but he definitely could've used subs better and not flogged players to death in some situations. He should've used Danjuma much more, same with Beto. I would argue there are other players who could've had more minutes.

He's a very conservative, old school manager. It is what it is. He's not going to change his style, and we have to accept it while he is here.

Audrey Horne wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 4:44 pm I dont think people do expect peak Brazil...? Who said that? Who has said they want to see flowing beautiful football ?

I am not stupid, I know we are in an awful position, that we are fighting relegation and cant necessarily compete.

But i also know that the football we are playing is fucking awful. Tactically it just seems terrible. We can not shoot. And i cant understand why? These may not be Haaland players but ffs, they are professional footballers, yet cant hit the target.

No creativity, no clue what to do with the ball etc

Its boring, but more than that, it is absolutely shit.

No changes before 67 mins, picking the same dire players week in week out.

Nothing we can do about like, but annoying when i hear that we are asking too much, or want exceptional footy.... I just want us to look competently coached when attacking.

Quote from Tarkowski today

"We've got to take onus as players. The manager sets us up to go and play in a certain way - we do it, we create chances, defend well but we just don't put the ball in the back of the net and it comes back to punish us in the end.

It’s not all on Dyche

Escla wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 5:02 pm Quote from Tarkowski today

"We've got to take onus as players. The manager sets us up to go and play in a certain way - we do it, we create chances, defend well but we just don't put the ball in the back of the net and it comes back to punish us in the end.

It’s not all on Dyche

Well he isnt going to say " yeah he is shite isnt he"

I think he’s done a very good job.

On a very poor run at the moment so he has to accept the criticisms but I’m sure we will turn it around.

In terms of performances we’ve been on much worse runs.

Audrey Horne wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 5:29 pm Well he isnt going to say " yeah he is shite isnt he"

He’d have no reason to would he.

Who'd want to be a striker in this side?

Shogun wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 6:02 pm

Who'd want to be a striker in this side?

You say that but we presented him with two excellent opportunities, he fired one straight at the keeper and the other he completely missed with his head from 6 yards out despite it being a perfect cross for him to head home unchallenged (he's incredibly lucky it went in off his shoulder).

We also won a penalty for him... Which he missed.

Think the map posted doesn't really tell the full story there tbh.

According to the stats (which I'm not a disciple of) we've around 20 goals fewer than we should have if we had players with "average" finishing (not just strikers).

Different circumstances of course but to compare Bowen (14 goals) to DCL (3 goals) with similar xG, then SOME of this discrepancy is down to our player's ability to finish. I'm the first to argue the differences but there is something to be drawn from this.

We'd be top half on that alone, with this perpetually weakened squad, and all the off-field stuff.

But we're not set up to play attractive fluent football?

We're overperforming defensively based on our xGA, and we know that every goal we concede makes our chances of winning a game exponentially harder.

On the whole, there is a reason we play as we do, small differences aside, through the necessity of wanting to stay in the league.

I think so much is asked of our attacking players off the ball that when a chance is presented to them they’re not in the right condition to take it.

It’s great that we’re so structured and aggressive off the ball, but when you match that with little control in possession you end up running your attacking players into the ground.

Either change the way we’re playing slightly, or rotate the attacking areas more.

Really annoys me when a young lad like dobbin comes on and scores a cracking goal but has very little chance after that to play whilst high on confidence, whilst they players in his position are off form.

Same with the strikers. Beto should have started a lot more games recently.

TheRam wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 9:46 pm I think so much is asked of our attacking players off the ball that when a chance is presented to them they’re not in the right condition to take it.

It’s great that we’re so structured and aggressive off the ball, but when you match that with little control in possession you end up running your attacking players into the ground.

Either change the way we’re playing slightly, or rotate the attacking areas more.

Really annoys me when a young lad like dobbin comes on and scores a cracking goal but has very little chance after that to play whilst high on confidence, whilst they players in his position are off form.

Same with the strikers. Beto should have started a lot more games recently.

No doubt at all, your first paragraph is some of the differences I was referring to, workload defensively, pitch coverage, so some of their (DCL, McNeil, Doucouré, Harrison, Beto etc) poor performance to xG is actually because they're contributing so much to xGA. And in balance it's very much do we want to score more, or prevent more.

I'm not so sure rotation to lower level players is what we can rely on though. Dobbin isn't at that level for example, that goal was an outlier, and we don't have game changers on the bench, probably just first 11 weakening players, fatigue aside. I do agree with Beto coming in, as he changes what we do, and maybe Danjuma in specific situations.

TheRam wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 9:46 pm I think so much is asked of our attacking players off the ball that when a chance is presented to them they’re not in the right condition to take it.

It’s great that we’re so structured and aggressive off the ball, but when you match that with little control in possession you end up running your attacking players into the ground.

Either change the way we’re playing slightly, or rotate the attacking areas more.

Really annoys me when a young lad like dobbin comes on and scores a cracking goal but has very little chance after that to play whilst high on confidence, whilst they players in his position are off form.

Same with the strikers. Beto should have started a lot more games recently.

Massive agree, and it's not just mental load and tiredness, it's fair to say the coach does not prioritise situations where we create chances consistently. When we are on a break we don't look like a counter attacking team that knows how to move through each third and create at the end of it. When we have the ball outside the box we don't look like we know how to play through each other and get in on the keeper in consistent reliable ways.

We resort to lumps into the box (with nothing from the fullbacks, which is holding us back massively btw) and crap shots from outside the box - garner has two, Beto had one, gomes had one, Onana had one, McNeil had one - all crap, low % shots that probably add up to like 0.25 of our xg but in reality we're miles off scoring on any of them and most of them are going into the crowd.

brap2 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:30 pm Massive agree, and it's not just mental load and tiredness, it's fair to say the coach does not prioritise situations where we create chances consistently. When we are on a break we don't look like a counter attacking team that knows how to move through each third and create at the end of it. When we have the ball outside the box we don't look like we know how to play through each other and get in on the keeper in consistent reliable ways.

We resort to lumps into the box (with nothing from the fullbacks, which is holding us back massively btw) and crap shots from outside the box - garner has two, Beto had one, gomes had one, Onana had one, McNeil had one - all crap, low % shots that probably add up to like 0.25 of our xg but in reality we're miles off scoring on any of them and most of them are going into the crowd.

You could set up and attack/defence situation with our players starting with the ball on the half way line, and if you ran it 100 times and each would be completely different based on individual decisions in the spur of the moment. There wouldn't be a clear plan of ball goes here, player x goes here, player y goes here, lane z opens up and ball is played through to player w in space at all.

Yeah young dobbin scores a good one against Chelsea then benched not even 5 minutes here or there but at home to a struggling palace Ashley young is picked right wing