The NSNO Everton Forums

TheRam wrote: ↑Sun Oct 27, 2024 9:00 pm Why though? It’s not like they’re playing dycheball effectively. Maybe that’s what is holding them back?

We have good footballers who can pass the ball.

The idea that what we’re seeing now is all they’re capable of is ridiculous to me.

I don’t see why someone like potter suddenly becomes a massive risk when he has a good record in the premier league.

So we're asking them to do something that is arguably easier to execute and less technically demanding and they're unable to consistently execute the basics, and we're expecting them to suddenly do those things and more under a more expensive manager/system?

We have a few good footballers who can pass, we have lots who show every week they don't so that all that well and more importantly make really poor decision in low risk areas. I don't have much faith they'll start doing it better when we're asking them to play in areas where making mistakes will kill us.

I didn't say that that's all they are capable of, it comes down to risk. We're having to play in a way to protect severe weaknesses in the first team and a small and poor squad.

We have to protect 2/3rds of our CBs as they're slow as shit and are exposed when playing on the turn.

We have to protect are fullbacks, who are ancient, slow or in myko's case having a crap season while being at best a 7 out of 10.

We have 1 well rounded midfielder, two who are liabilities when playing football from deep and in general poor passes and a psr signing who switches off when we have the ball.

All things I genuinely worry are a recipe for a shitshow if we start trying to play super progressive football. Burnley crashed and burned trying to do the same at a level that group of players wasn't capable of operating at in that style.

Audrey Horne wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 11:00 am If they cant pass the ball then they wouldnt be professional footballers playing at a top level.

The players are not 'so limited' that Dyche has to play a particular way with them.

Honestly cant believe some of the stuff being said.

I can appreciate that Dyche has done a good job in keeping us up when it looked hopeless. But I also cant understand why you are making out these players are so bad. Its just not correct.

So you think that backline yesterday is a good set of players who should be playing a more expansive way?

It's coaching 101 that you don't let your opponent exploit your weaknesses... They had a lot of pace up top, we had none at the back, understandably we set up to protect our backline because doing so stop them exploiting our weakest area.

I'd love to see us passing it about more, and Fulham was the version of Dyche that goes too far with the don't concede an inch philosophy, but halfway through the first half we opened up a bit and they had their most dangerous spell, so it was pretty clear we either tried to grind out a point or probably lost doing something else. The problem is we still almost lost so it didn't really work even if we ultimately did get a draw.

But at the end of the day people see what they want to, it baffles me that anyone can't see that a back 4 of those players leads to a manager setting up to protect them, but it's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't scenarios... We conceded too many goals at the start of the season and got no points - Dyche bad. We now don't concede many goals and pick up almost 2 points a match on average over the past 5 games but play shit football - Dyche bad.

Only thing that's not changed this season really is the back 4, one way of playing exposed their weaknesses and resulted in no points and everyone wanting Dyche gone, the other way results in 9 points in 5 games because the weakness was protected at the cost of the style of play and everyone wants Dyche gone.

Not being in the real world is saying a group of premier league footballers who finished 12th last season can’t produce better football.

I’m past survival mode now. New owners, lot of the debt cleared, new stadium, we should be looking up from here on in.

I’m wanting us to be a top eight side within the first three years of the new owners and I don’t think it would take a lot to achieve that.

Dyche is getting judged on what he achieved last season and what he could achieve with new ownership.

He’s failing at the moment. His decisions this season have been baffling to say the least.

Let’s move on and start looking forward.

UnsyisaRhino wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 11:43 am So we're asking them to do something that is arguably easier to execute and less technically demanding and they're unable to consistently execute the basics, and we're expecting them to suddenly do those things and more under a more expensive manager/system?

We have a few good footballers who can pass, we have lots who show every week they don't so that all that well and more importantly make really poor decision in low risk areas. I don't have much faith they'll start doing it better when we're asking them to play in areas where making mistakes will kill us.

I didn't say that that's all they are capable of, it comes down to risk. We're having to play in a way to protect severe weaknesses in the first team and a small and poor squad.

We have to protect 2/3rds of our CBs as they're slow as shit and are exposed when playing on the turn.

We have to protect are fullbacks, who are ancient, slow or in myko's case having a crap season while being at best a 7 out of 10.

We have 1 well rounded midfielder, two who are liabilities when playing football from deep and in general poor passes and a psr signing who switches off when we have the ball.

All things I genuinely worry are a recipe for a shitshow if we start trying to play super progressive football. Burnley crashed and burned trying to do the same at a level that group of players wasn't capable of operating at in that style.

Again, who’s talking about super progressive football?

I’m just talking about using the ball better and controlling games more than we’ve seen.

Surely you can agree the players are capable of better than what we’ve seen so far this season?

TheRam wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 11:47 am Not being in the real world is saying a group of premier league footballers who finished 12th last season can’t produce better football.

I’m past survival mode now. New owners, lot of the debt cleared, new stadium, we should be looking up from here on in.

I’m wanting us to be a top eight side within the first three years of the new owners and I don’t think it would take a lot to achieve that.

Dyche is getting judged on what he achieved last season and what he could achieve with new ownership.

He’s failing at the moment. His decisions this season have been baffling to say the least.

Let’s move on and start looking forward.

It's only 9 games though and we're on course to match last year's points haul, which I think is acceptable.

He's not failing imo, he's about on par with what I'd expect although the Bournemouth collapse is probably the one thing that knocks it down from par to being sub par... Had we won that I think the mood would be a bit different and we'd be on 12 points from 9 games.

But what are we really arguing on here anyway? That Dyche should go at the end of the season? It's a given that he will be replaced due to the new owners, so feels more the argument is about the lack of respect he gets for the job he's done

This season he's essentially a place holder for a new man coming in next summer, so he just needs to keep us clear of any danger which is what I fully expect him to achieve.

Im out.

Not going round in circles over this. You dont think these players can be any better than this, i think they 100% can.

Sound!

AjaxAndy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 11:53 am It's only 9 games though and we're on course to match last year's points haul, which I think is acceptable.

He's not failing imo, he's about on par with what I'd expect although the Bournemouth collapse is probably the one thing that knocks it down from par to being sub par... Had we won that I think the mood would be a bit different and we'd be on 12 points from 9 games.

But what are we really arguing on here anyway? That Dyche should go at the end of the season? It's a given that he will be replaced due to the new owners, so feels more the argument is about the lack of respect he gets for the job he's done

This season he's essentially a place holder for a new man coming in next summer, so he just needs to keep us clear of any danger which is what I fully expect him to achieve.

Those last two sentences are really all that needs to be said.

It'll be a pretty quiet ''next Everton manager'' thread, if we don't discuss the next manager, the failings of the current manager (as well as the merits) and the direction we want to go in.

TheRam wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 11:50 am Again, who’s talking about super progressive football?

I’m just talking about using the ball better and controlling games more than we’ve seen.

Surely you can agree the players are capable of better than what we’ve seen so far this season?

I associate super progressive football with potter, maybe only in comparison to dyche. But for this group anything in thay ballpark is super progressive.

Some are, some have proven repeatedly not to be. Especially when, as I said, it exposes them.

Keane, gueye, doucs, myko and tarks are all players I wouldn't trust to play more football in riskier parts of the pitch.

They are capable but my worry is that it's very risky with this group.

Audrey Horne wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 11:59 am Im out.

Not going round in circles over this. You dont think these players can be any better than this, i think they 100% can.

Sound!

I'd be curious to see a list of the players you think would be able to properly execute the style we saw potter try to play at either chelsea or Brighton.

I don't think we have 11 who can.

UnsyisaRhino wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 12:55 pm I'd be curious to see a list of the players you think would be able to properly execute the style we saw potter try to play at either chelsea or Brighton.

I don't think we have 11 who can.

1. Why are you mentioning Potter? Have we hired him?
2. Has he only got one style?


Its crazy all this.

TheRam wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 11:47 am Not being in the real world is saying a group of premier league footballers who finished 12th last season can’t produce better football.

I’m past survival mode now. New owners, lot of the debt cleared, new stadium, we should be looking up from here on in.

I’m wanting us to be a top eight side within the first three years of the new owners and I don’t think it would take a lot to achieve that.

Dyche is getting judged on what he achieved last season and what he could achieve with new ownership.

He’s failing at the moment. His decisions this season have been baffling to say the least.

Let’s move on and start looking forward.

No one is saying they can't play better football. Just that it might come with worse results

Bluedylan1 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 12:27 pm It'll be a pretty quiet ''next Everton manager'' thread, if we don't discuss the next manager, the failings of the current manager (as well as the merits) and the direction we want to go in.

I think we’ve done his failings to death.

Audrey Horne wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 11:59 am Im out.

Not going round in circles over this. You dont think these players can be any better than this, i think they 100% can.

Sound!

All those crazy coaches out there believing they can change/improve players amd tactics. And clubs pay them money as well. Bonkers.

Audrey Horne wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2024 1:11 pm 1. Why are you mentioning Potter? Have we hired him?
2. Has he only got one style?


Its crazy all this.

He's on the voting list, he's a realistic target and he matches the 'better football label', he's also been mentioned by a few people involved in the conversation? I'm not sure why me using him as an example is causing so much confusion.

I mean, based on every team he's worked with, yes? Most managers do, they might adapt things slightly based on the quality of their players or to beat specific opposition, but they usually have a style or system they build the team around.