The NSNO Everton Forums

Of course this group of players are capable of better performances and results.

People are getting too bogged down on the whole style of football debate.

We were better last season so why have we been worse this season?

We were great up until the new year last season.

So far this season we’ve had one good performance and that was against Ipswich.

These players can do better. This manager can get more out of these players and if he can’t, then someone else can.

TheRam wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 10:07 pm Of course this group of players are capable of better performances and results.

People are getting too bogged down on the whole style of football debate.

We were better last season so why have we been worse this season?

We were great up until the new year last season.

So far this season we’ve had one good performance and that was against Ipswich.

These players can do better. This manager can get more out of these players and if he can’t, then someone else can.

we did have a really good first 85 mins against Bournemouth

Shogun wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 9:47 pm I doubt this squad is less technically less talented than the one Potter took over at Brighton and he had them playing good football though, no? If Webster, Dunk, Duffy and Burn can adjust then I'm sure our lot can as well.

We played awful football under Benitez and would been relegated whilst Dyche's awful football would have seen him take Burnley down only he was saved by being sacked. So it's not like this type of football is sustainable.

It has sustained us, though, for the last couple of seasons. And I'm happy to stick with him until it looks like it won't.

I'm not saying that managers haven't turned around less technically-talented squads before, it has definitely happened. But a lot of people are saying this squad is capable of more and I'm struggling to see the basis for it. Where have they - consistently - shown that they are better than this?

We've had Carlo Ancelotti, one of the most decorated managers in the game lining up with 4 centre backs by the end. Koeman did well with Southampton and couldn't tell his arsehole from his elbow when he was here (but has since blagged the Barcelona and Netherlands jobs). Martinez, Silva, Benitez - they've all had some sort of pedigree elsewhere.

What Potter did at Brighton was great but he definitely had a more stable foundation and, I'd imagine, less expectation when he started there. Dyche has been 'Sean' of all our best players and had no money with which to replace them, and an absent executive structure to boot.

It's not even about style of play for me - I can find the beauty in anything if we're winning. I'm just very nervous about the idea of jibbing Dyche while the ship is vaguely still afloat.

AllyBlue14 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 10:26 pm It has sustained us, though, for the last couple of seasons. And I'm happy to stick with him until it looks like it won't.

I'm not saying that managers haven't turned around less technically-talented squads before, it has definitely happened. But a lot of people are saying this squad is capable of more and I'm struggling to see the basis for it. Where have they - consistently - shown that they are better than this?

We've had Carlo Ancelotti, one of the most decorated managers in the game lining up with 4 centre backs by the end. Koeman did well with Southampton and couldn't tell his arsehole from his elbow when he was here (but has since blagged the Barcelona and Netherlands jobs). Martinez, Silva, Benitez - they've all had some sort of pedigree elsewhere.

What Potter did at Brighton was great but he definitely had a more stable foundation and, I'd imagine, less expectation when he started there. Dyche has been 'Sean' of all our best players and had no money with which to replace them, and an absent executive structure to boot.

It's not even about style of play for me - I can find the beauty in anything if we're winning. I'm just very nervous about the idea of jibbing Dyche while the ship is vaguely still afloat.

thats fair

TheRam wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 10:07 pm Of course this group of players are capable of better performances and results.

People are getting too bogged down on the whole style of football debate.

We were better last season so why have we been worse this season?

We were great up until the new year last season.

So far this season we’ve had one good performance and that was against Ipswich.

These players can do better. This manager can get more out of these players and if he can’t, then someone else can.

Agree on the style of football.

And I agree that we had better performances last season too, particularly December and April.

I think Branthwaite was central to a lot of it. Even though Keane has played pretty well of late, we have to set up slightly differently to accommodate him. Hopefully with Branners back, we can start to recreate some of those performances last season and put a bit of distance between ourselves and the others.

TheRam wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 10:07 pm Of course this group of players are capable of better performances and results.

People are getting too bogged down on the whole style of football debate.

We were better last season so why have we been worse this season?

We were great up until the new year last season.

So far this season we’ve had one good performance and that was against Ipswich.

These players can do better. This manager can get more out of these players and if he can’t, then someone else can.

I think that's the crux of the discussion.

My takeaway was that the range of style(s) we've shown under Dyche go from the low defensive counter against Fulham (which we've seen alot of), to Brighton 1-5 (in pink) a season ago, to, well pick your favourite win: the 2-0 over Liverpool, or the 3-0 high press over Bournemouth last season. But none of them were particularly flowing/pass and move, high possession, weren't all that satisfying to the eye, modem football. Always structured and effective, enjoyable at times but hardly ever pretty.

(I also wasn't thinking anyone was expecting prime Barcelona)

Despite a range of results I just don't think there's been a huge range of performance and is very much horses for courses with the aim of maximising points. We're not quite a quarter of the season in, who knows what the rest of the season will bring, but if we replicate some of the slightly nicer stuff, but importantly get the results, then I'm happy for him to continue whilst the finances are still in flux. January and end of season windows will be interesting.

Don't get the Potter shouts. He's failed since Brighton... Maybe that's our attraction?

Team Frank. Based almost entirely on his post match interviews. He’s lovely

Ok.. So, go easy. Just looking at the reaction over Almorin going United and the players really rating Ruud V. N with his coaching work. Would he be worth looking at? Young and ambitious... Ok. I'll park it

Paddockoldie wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 2:42 pm Ok.. So, go easy. Just looking at the reaction over Almorin going United and the players really rating Ruud V. N with his coaching work. Would he be worth looking at? Young and ambitious... Ok. I'll park it

It's so rare that good players become good managers, that I'm always cautious.

Definitely prefer a manager that has learned the ropes elsewhere, at a lower level than a name getting a job simply due to who he is.

That's not to say it can't work. Just it rarely does.

superpull wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 4:27 pm It's so rare that good players become good managers, that I'm always cautious.

Definitely prefer a manager that has learned the ropes elsewhere, at a lower level than a name getting a job simply due to who he is.

That's not to say it can't work. Just it rarely does.

The kindest response I could hope for.

Just seen Niko Kovac is without a club. Yes please.

superpull wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 4:27 pm It's so rare that good players become good managers, that I'm always cautious.

I don't think we should go after RVN but is this actually true? I hear it said a lot but does the evidence bear it out?

Guardiola, Zidane, Ancelotti, Arteta, Simeone, Alonso, Gallardo, Iraola, Poch, Deschamps, Enrique, Motta, Conte. I'm sure there's others.

Paddockoldie wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 6:35 am Don't get the Potter shouts. He's failed since Brighton... Maybe that's our attraction?

I wouldn’t call anyone a failure for bombing at Chelsea.

Until they got Palmer they were just a massively rich version of us.

Bluedylan1 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 5:26 pm I don't think we should go after RVN but is this actually true? I hear it said a lot but does the evidence bear it out?

Guardiola, Zidane, Ancelotti, Arteta, Simeone, Alonso, Gallardo, Iraola, Poch, Deschamps, Enrique, Motta, Conte. I'm sure there's others.

A lot of also-rans in there when compared to RVN.

Guardiola, Ancelotti, Gallardo, Iraola, Poch, Motta. Even Conte and Arteta.
None of those were world class players really.

Only Zidane, Alonso, Simeone and Deschamps were truly, properly world class like RVN.

Always an exception to every rule though

Edit
And I did use the word good - which means your point was entirely valid. I've moved the goalposts without realising it there.