The NSNO Everton Forums

Bluedylan1 wrote:Always respectfully, but I couldn't disagree more with either of you (brap and Ram), tbh.

Of course we know that Moshiri, Uzmanov and their enablers (Kenwright, DBB etc) are to blame for ruining the club, and the position we find ourselves. We've all spent years slaughtering them, agonising over the decline of the club and so many people have suffered and protested over varieties of issues, while at the same time finding the strength to support a laughably bad team to drag it's way to safety on multiple occasions. We all have maximum anger for those people, but repeating it over and over again isn't going to change it, and hasn't changed it. It's not a democracy where we choose our owners, it's a dictatorship.

Carragher is saying something we've all known for years and years, that the club has been one of the worst run clubs in the world. We've all said it on here, countless times.

When people say ''we should accept our part in it'', what is our part in it? Our club was skint for decades, we looked for investment, we were informed by people who said they had the wellbeing of the club in mind that we had new ownership taking us in a bright new direction. People raised questions but we can't do anything about any of that. We don't get to choose who buys the club. Did many of us rejoice in spending money and buying players? Yes, absolutely. And what is wrong with that? We're not investigative journalists. We don't get to stop new owner coming into the team. We don't get a say in which players we buy. We haven't made any of the decisions that have led the club to ruin. We are passengers, beholden to the whims and mistakes of very rich, very questionable people.

Could people have stopped supporting the club and stopped going to the game? In theory yes, but in reality that's never going to happen is it? It's a social institution that is almost 150 years old and a massive part of the community, and the lives of many, many people. So we're just along for the ride, and we have to suffer the consequences of all their decisions and ineptitude.

For me, that is all a given, and that is a separate issue from the clear corruption and entrenched inequality of the Premier League. I don't think for one second that people calling out that massive unfairness and possible corrupt handling of our situation (also acknowledged by many independent people - politicians, journos) means that our fanbase comes across as braindead or delusional. Again, the fans have to suffer the consequences of that behaviour from the Premier League, just as they have to suffer the consequences of the owners and the board. We have been treated abominably by the Prem, for highly questionable reasons (being charitable), and that is still the case whether we had dodgy owners or not, and people are entirely justified in being angry about it.

If this was a larger, more well represented club this was happening to, people would be writing endless articles about the poor Liverpool/Arsenal/Man U fans and how they are the ones being punished for something they had no say in or control over, just as people defended the Big 6 fans, when their owners threatened to break away.

So for me, rolling over as a fanbase and saying ''yeah, you're right it's our fault Gov, sorry we won't do what every other fanbase in world football has done and been completely powerless in the running of their club and then have to suffer the consequences'' is utterly misguided and self-defeating, and almost self-loathing.

And don't let social media impact your feelings on...well anything. People are cranks. All fanbases are full of cranks. People are venting and some of them get carried away because something they love very dearly may be dying, and in reality it's absolutely nothing to do with them and not their fault in the slightest. That's my view anyway, respectfully.

TheRam wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:28 am He became a billionaire during the collapse of the Soviet Union when he was part of a group of people who ransacked the countries economy to take control of former state assets.

Basically, took money out the country and cut deals with the state to make himself rich.

Also spent years in prison in the 80s on fraud charges and embezzlement.

His ex wife was very close to Putin so he’s very much protected now.

Take your point on Burnham. It’s good that he’s getting out there and fighting this, just strange how a mayor or Manchester is the prominent voice, but I suppose he’s a high profile figure with a good history in sporting justice so it’s good that’s he’s a part of this.

4evablu wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 12:54 pm Cheers Ram - had no idea of his background at all just remembered he came from a background of being on Arsenals board or something.
TBH wish i had his bottle haha (and money) With that background how did he get so in with Arsenal? Surely he went through this PL scrutiny rubbish?
Would've been interesting to see what would have happened without the war on Ukraine? Would he have still been ostracized or hailed a sugar daddy ?

Bluedylan1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 11:49 am Well that's annoying. I was ready for an old-school heavyweight NSNO ding-dong.

brap2 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 1:22 pm I think the only places we differ are that

A) I am possibly too wrapped up in being annoyed by our own fans, and wanting that anger to be directed at the board but like you say, we *were* protesting. I walked out at the arsenal game myself. What now? Moshiri is selling. He's selling to some cowboys I don't want, now what? Protest them? The here and now is these deductions might send us down.

brap2 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 1:22 pm And that B) I am possibly too concerned with how the club the fans the goings-on will be represented by the wider football media, the articles the pods the discourse. I want it to be "right". I want it known that we were protesting for this reason because this was coming and we didn't want it. I want it to also be known that the punishment is disproportionate, and the reasons behind the prems actions are not entirely transparent and for the good of the game, they are self serving and we appear to be collateral and that's why we are angry, not because there's a conspiracy.

brap2 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 1:22 pm And that finally C) you are maybe slightly further down the spectrum of 'How Wrong Are The Prem' here than I am, because while I think they are wrong...our accounts were off, then when they called the next set of accounts, after we'd already been done, our accounts were off again. It's hard to make a concrete argument against that in my mind.

Even if they are Grandstanding for their own sake and making an example of us, our accounts were off, and there's no rules against this 'double jeapordy' business, there's no rules against them changing their own rules in the future, there's no rules against them recommending punishments to the independent committee nor against the independent committee punishing in line or out of line with those recommendations. So how wrong are the prem here?

There's not going to be a smoking gun, because they're not breaking any rules, but we have unfortunately. And we apparently still are.

Gash wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 1:03 pm He owned about 30% of Arsenal but wasn't on the board so wasn't subject to any PL checks.

If there hadn't been the war we'd all be happily sitting back while he funded the new stadium etc.

brap2 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 1:22 pm I think the only places we differ are that

A) I am possibly too wrapped up in being annoyed by our own fans, and wanting that anger to be directed at the board but like you say, we *were* protesting. I walked out at the arsenal game myself. What now? Moshiri is selling. He's selling to some cowboys I don't want, now what? Protest them? The here and now is these deductions might send us down.

And that B) I am possibly too concerned with how the club the fans the goings-on will be represented by the wider football media, the articles the pods the discourse. I want it to be "right". I want it known that we were protesting for this reason because this was coming and we didn't want it. I want it to also be known that the punishment is disproportionate, and the reasons behind the prems actions are not entirely transparent and for the good of the game, they are self serving and we appear to be collateral and that's why we are angry, not because there's a conspiracy.

And that finally C) you are maybe slightly further down the spectrum of 'How Wrong Are The Prem' here than I am, because while I think they are wrong...our accounts were off, then when they called the next set of accounts, after we'd already been done, our accounts were off again. It's hard to make a concrete argument against that in my mind.

Even if they are Grandstanding for their own sake and making an example of us, our accounts were off, and there's no rules against this 'double jeapordy' business, there's no rules against them changing their own rules in the future, there's no rules against them recommending punishments to the independent committee nor against the independent committee punishing in line or out of line with those recommendations. So how wrong are the prem here?

There's not going to be a smoking gun, because they're not breaking any rules, but we have unfortunately. And we apparently still are.

Sirblue57 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 2:25 pm How can it be legal, in any form. To have rules being by pasded by some teams.to then prosecute other teams and make up punishment AFTER THE EVENT. And then deny them taking legal avtion to appeal the decision by a TRULY INDEPENDENT COURT?
Do not tell that it doesn't stink .
Corruption is in broad daylight.